--- Day changed Sun Oct 02 2005
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00:34:07 < amiconn> Hmm. Where's the irc log of 2005-09-30 gone?
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01:53:02 < muesli-> re
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02:32:53 < BoD[]> Hello world !
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02:34:12 < BoD[]> well
02:34:17 < BoD[]> today I bought an ipod
02:34:50 < BoD[]> hoping that one day rockbox will run on that ;)
02:35:20 < linuxstb> You are obviously a gambler.  Which iPod did you buy?
02:36:07 < BoD[]> :) the "photo" 20gig
02:36:40 < BoD[]> i *almost* got the 60gigs but they didn't have it and I didn't want to wait, (and it was very more expensive)
02:38:11 < BirdFish[alt]> hehe
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02:40:48 < BoD[]> I first bought an iriver h340
02:41:23 < BirdFish> What happened to it?
02:41:51 < BoD[]> but didn't like it because no touchpad or wheel, and usb host didn't work (with my sony), and can't read the screen when it's not lit
02:41:58 < BoD[]> oh and a bit "thick" too
02:42:01 < BoD[]> so I returned it
02:42:13 < BoD[]> then I got a mpio hd300 40gig
02:42:24 < BoD[]> its firmware is ridiculous
02:42:28 < BirdFish> It's a good thing that you can't read the screen when it's not lit
02:42:34 < BirdFish> That feature saves power ;)
02:42:41 < BirdFish> And size is always better compared to ipod :D
02:42:52 < BirdFish> You would have been much better off
02:42:54 < BoD[]> uhh
02:43:19 < BoD[]> it's thicker than the ipod i got (but it's 20gigs so I guess it's normal)
02:43:41 < BirdFish> Did you check into the IAudio X5?
02:43:45 < BoD[]> the mpio 40gig was thick too
02:43:56 < BirdFish> note: you might still have time to return the ipod ;) ;)
02:43:58 < BoD[]> iaudio x5? hmm no is it good ?
02:44:18 < BirdFish> Beautiful
02:44:19 < BirdFish> :D
02:44:32 < fuzzie> 20:13 <linuxstb__> Not really.  I've been busy on the iPod.
02:44:34 < BirdFish> eCost has them for dirt cheap!
02:44:38 < fuzzie> ^- much hope for rockbox on the iPod
02:44:41 < BoD[]> yes but does rockbox run on it ? ;)
02:44:48 < BirdFish> Not currently
02:44:57 < BoD[]> héhé
02:44:57 < BirdFish> But the manufactured firmware is good just the same
02:45:10 < BirdFish> And a port for the X5 has been opened ;)
02:45:22 < BoD[]> can you randomize everything ? ;) (with the mpio : you can't)
02:45:27 < BirdFish> Yes
02:45:47 < BirdFish> You can set the screen's brightness
02:45:51 < BirdFish> Change the background images
02:46:01 < BoD[]> uh oh what's that joypad thinggy ? ;)
02:46:07 < BirdFish> It plays FLAC with manufactured firmware! :D :D :D
02:46:18 < BirdFish> It's professional, that's what it is ;)
02:46:34 < BoD[]> hmmmmmmmmm
02:46:55 < BoD[]> is it really practical to browse 200 artists fast ? like a wheel or touchpad is
02:47:02 < BirdFish> It's the only player in the world right now (other than the deprecated Karma) that comes preloaded ready to play FLAC
02:47:03 < BirdFish> Woot
02:47:14 < BirdFish> Not sure about that
02:47:23 < BirdFish> Mine's on it's way
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02:47:26 < BirdFish> I can't wait
02:47:41 < BoD[]> ok you'll tell me :)
02:47:47 < linuxstb> The iPod had ALAC, but that's about the only good thing I can say about Apple's firmware.
02:47:52 < linuxstb> (has ALAC)
02:48:17 < BoD[]> but anyway the story is
02:48:18 < BirdFish> The one thing that it doesn't have currently but will have in about a week or two is a browse function by ID3 tag
02:49:40 < BoD[]> the story is I tried 2 models, they sucked, I had to return them and that's very anoying, so I just opted for a model I know works ok.
02:49:43 < fuzzie> the advantage of the iPod seems to be the wheel rather than the firmware
02:50:12 < BirdFish> Definitely
02:50:22 < BoD[]> well :)
02:50:26 < BirdFish> BoD[]: I had the same thought a couple times ;)
02:50:28 < BoD[]> the mpio has a touchpad thing
02:50:29 < BirdFish> But I've held out
02:50:29 < fuzzie> which is why it'd be nice to see rockbox on it.
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02:50:44 < fuzzie> i wish i knew enough to help linuxstb out :)
02:50:45 < BoD[]> but the firmware is so ridiculous that the thing is unusable
02:50:46 < BirdFish> ipodlinux is leet too
02:50:53 < BirdFish> no offense rockbox
02:51:00 < BirdFish> I just happen to get off to linux :P
02:51:00 < linuxstb> fuzzie: Just buy an ipod and learn...
02:51:22 < fuzzie> linuxstb: what model(s) would i need, in order to use whatever you're working on?
02:51:43 < linuxstb> A new color model - I have a 60GB color.
02:51:54 < BoD[]> hey that's what I have ;)
02:52:00 < BoD[]> maybe I could help ;) yeah right
02:52:05 < BirdFish> fuzzie: you've got enough money to randomly buy a few models just to work on firmware?
02:52:08 < BirdFish> Sweet ;)
02:52:15 < fuzzie> i have enough money to buy *one*
02:52:26 < fuzzie> well, actually, in reality i have enough money to buy a whole heap
02:52:31 < fuzzie> but that money is kinda earmarked 'savings'
02:52:31 < BirdFish> haha
02:53:04 < BirdFish> fuzzie: if you don't mind my asking, what is your profession? I mean, how did you come about learning to program firmware?
02:53:12 < fuzzie> i don't :)
02:53:18 < BirdFish> I'm getting ready to decide my major in college and was just wondering
02:53:18 < fuzzie> hence why i was saying above, i wish i knew enough
02:53:23 < BirdFish> Oh
02:53:29 < BirdFish> I thought you meant about the model ;)
02:53:35 < linuxstb> There's not a great deal of difference between the models - so it doesn't really matter which you buy.  As long as it's one of the newer PP5020 based models, and as long as it isn't the Nano (at the moment).
02:53:40 < fuzzie> i have done so embedded hardware work
02:53:46 < fuzzie> err, some
02:53:48 < fuzzie> linuxstb: would a Mini work?
02:54:17 < BirdFish> The nano is cool in regards to the size factor
02:54:18 < linuxstb> Yes - anything supported by iPodLinux - http://ipodlinux.org/Project_Status
02:54:39 < fuzzie> linuxstb: thanks
02:55:26 < BirdFish> But I'm still going to rebel against anything Ipod for a bit
02:55:33 < linuxstb> fuzzie: I assume you know about the LCD problems with the new colour ipods?
02:55:59 < BirdFish> What about them linuxstb
02:56:00 < BirdFish> ?
02:56:02 < fuzzie> yes
02:56:16 < BirdFish> I haven't heard about them
02:56:41 < linuxstb> BirdFish: Color ipods sold in the last couple of months have a very slightly different colour LCD - so the ipodlinux LCD driver doesn't work with them.
02:56:54 < BirdFish> ah
02:56:56 < BirdFish> :)
02:57:09 < linuxstb> But I'm expecting (hoping) the ipodlinux guys to find the solution soon.
02:57:42 < BirdFish> the color version isn't completely supported yet anyways, is it?
02:58:10 < fuzzie> BirdFish: but, well, if you want to do firmware work, either CS or CS/EE would be more than good enough skills-wise
02:58:14 < linuxstb> See the link I just posted.  All the important hardware has fully working drivers
02:58:38 < linuxstb> It's more than enough for a usable Rockbox port.
02:59:02 < BirdFish> fuzzie: I'm thinking about CS&E
03:01:02 < fuzzie> *nod*
03:01:43 < dpassen1> i'm Computer Engineering
03:01:54 < BirdFish> Like it?
03:01:58 < dpassen1> so far
03:01:59 < BirdFish> Rigorous?
03:02:12 < dpassen1> not yet, but u
03:02:21 < dpassen1> *I'm still towards the beginning
03:02:36 < BirdFish> gotcha
03:02:37 < dpassen1> the pre-requisites were the tough part
03:02:52 < dpassen1> Calc 1,2,3 Linear Algebra, Diff Eq, Physics 1 and 2, Chem 1 and 2, etc.
03:02:59 < fuzzie> a lot more difficult than CS, imo
03:04:05 < dpassen1> its funny watching people drop as i advance
03:04:17 < dpassen1> many switched to Information Systems
03:05:50 < BirdFish> Meh
03:05:54 < fuzzie> ick. :)
03:06:13 < dpassen1> they used to abbreviate it as IFSM - I Failed Science and Math
03:06:18 < BirdFish> I didn't really like what CE involved. I'm more into the software stuff.
03:07:02 < fuzzie> well, any decent CS course ought to give you a chance at some embedded work
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03:08:01 < dpassen1> i hope to be able to contribute to rockbox in time
03:08:31 < darkless> does anyone have a link to the latest dircache patch by Slasheri?
03:10:19 < dpassen1> http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache.diff
03:10:42 < dpassen1> http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache_rev2.diff
03:11:01 < dpassen1> i dont know well enough to say which is recommended
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03:15:13 < darkless> thanks a lot, dpassen1. The second revision is much faster, because it uses fat_opendir instead of opendir :-)
03:15:32 < dpassen1> glad to help
03:15:50 < fuzzie> heh, libmad on ipodlinux isn't realtime?
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03:18:00 < linuxstb> fuzzie: Most things are not realtime on ipodlinux.
03:18:54 < linuxstb> That's why I think there's a need for Rockbox.
03:19:18 < fuzzie> Linux overhead?
03:19:28 < fuzzie> I must admit my first reaction was 'that's going to suck overhead-wise'
03:19:36 < fuzzie> But then I realised, I don't know if that's really true..
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03:20:57 < linuxstb> At the moment, they are only using one of the two ARM processors.  They probably haven't done as much low-level optimisation as we've done with the codecs either.
03:21:27 < linuxstb> I don't know how well they are using the IRAM for example.
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03:30:10 < MipsIrv> anyone here have experience with armboot?
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04:09:46 < preglow> linuxstb: remember how much iram the portalplayer cores have got?
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10:40:04 < amiconn> Bagder, Zagor or LinusN?
10:40:38 < amiconn> Something is wrong with the IRC logs. Current log works, but older logs don't show up on the irc page
10:41:00 < amiconn> (currently missing are 20050930 and 20051001)
10:52:50 < Zagor> hmm, strange
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11:19:54 < markun> ender`, how did the unicode build work for you?
11:20:13 < ender`> fine, however the japanese font doesn't work - i only get garbage
11:21:08 < markun> Strange. It used to work.
11:21:33 < markun> Ah, did I give you the 18x18? That doesn't work no.. I have a smaller japanese font that does work.
11:22:05 < markun> currently fonts can't be bigger than 16 pixels.
11:22:19 < ender`> the filename says 12x13ja
11:22:56 < markun> Strange.
11:27:58 < markun> I get garbage too..
11:54:44 < linuxstb> Morning all.  Can someone explain the stride parameter to lcd_mono_bitmap_part() ?
11:57:08 < amiconn> That's simple. 'stride' says how many bytes to advance for each row. This is necessary when drawing partial bitmaps
11:57:38 < linuxstb> So it refers to the input bitmap?
11:58:01 < amiconn> yup
11:58:20 < amiconn> See how lcd_mono_bitmap() calls lcd_mono_bitmap_part()
11:59:01 < amiconn> All *_*_bitmap_part() functions have a stride parameter
12:00:11 < amiconn> Beware that stride means the number of bytes, not the number of pixels
12:00:57 < amiconn> The numbers are identical for the core mono bitmap format of all current targets, because of the 'orientation' of a byte in a monochrome bitmap
12:02:15 < amiconn> I'd suggest to keep this orientation for >=8 bit displays, as there is no need for a specific byte orientation in mono bitmaps, and it's the most common mono bitmap format in rockbox
12:02:47 < amiconn> The only graphics engine with a different mono bitmap format so far is playergfx
12:03:04 < linuxstb> Yes, I've got no intention of changing the mono bitmap format.
12:07:51 < amiconn> The graphics routines for >=8 bit displays will be rather trivial compared to the current ones
12:08:21 < amiconn> lcd_draw_bitmap_part() will essential be a sequence of memcpy()
12:09:03 < linuxstb> Yes, an exact number of bytes per pixel obviously simplifies things.
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12:25:12 < Slasheri> hehe, with dircache creating the root playlist takes only a few seconds :)
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12:25:59 < Slasheri> now updating the code not to spin up disk when modifying the playlist
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12:41:22 < markun> Slasheri: I noticed something strange with the pcmbuf_beep.
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12:42:02 < markun> It works when I skip during the loading of the first part of the first track, but when that is loaded it doesn't beep anymore.
12:42:17 < markun> When the rest of the buffer is loaded the beep works again.
12:44:11 < Slasheri> ah, that is probably caused because of a too short pcm buffer. We need to write a fix for this
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13:06:05 < guillaume> hi
13:06:56 < _FireFly_> hi
13:08:14 < solexx> is anybody here familiar with the wps parsing code?
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13:11:27 < arkascha> Since upgrade to 2.5 my iriver H120 refuses to play any oggs with a 'codec failure'. This worked in 2.4. Any ideas anyone?
13:12:03 < markun> arkascha: Are you building from cvs?
13:12:23 < arkascha> no, release cause I thought that the new 2.5 holds all the stuff for iriver...
13:13:12 < solexx> arkascha: rockbox was not released for iriver yet
13:13:17 < markun> arkascha: there has not been a release for iriver. Use the daily build.
13:13:43 < arkascha> I see. I'll use a daily snapshot again. Thanx :-)
13:15:37 < _FireFly_> the latest daily-build is from 20050930
13:16:05 < _FireFly_> why doesn't exist a daily-build from 20051001 and 20051002 ??
13:20:45 < arkascha> ok, oggs working again after building from source, thanx for the tip
13:21:09 < arkascha> another question: I thought about creating a plugin for vcard files. Has anyone thought about this yet?
13:24:48 < arkascha> sorry update: the oggs DON'T work with a daily. The track starts but stops after 2 secs with a codec failure...
13:25:22 < _FireFly_> can you use ogginfo ??
13:26:11 < arkascha> the oggs are ok, I can play them on my pc and with the iriver firmware and the older 2.4, but I'll check
13:26:26 < _FireFly_> i had the same failure
13:26:39 < markun> arkascha: last time I got codec failures I had to rm everything in the build dir, then do configure and make again. Maybe it helps.
13:26:42 < _FireFly_> ogginfo said that there were a hole in the file
13:27:19 < _FireFly_> after retagging it the failure was gone.. i think the failure cames, when id3tags are used in ogg files
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13:28:59 < arkascha> ogginfo shows nothing special except for the usual 'no upper and lower bitrate set'
13:30:04 < _FireFly_> then test the tip from markun
13:30:05 < guillaume> arkascha: it's weird, i have the latest daily builf for h120 and oggs work well, but i've had a problem with one mp3 
13:31:18 < arkascha> nope, fresh build shows codec failure as well, hmmm
13:31:58 < ghode|afk> arkascha: did you overwrite the files or delete the rbx dir first?
13:32:27 < _FireFly_> what files did you copy from your build ??
13:32:49 < arkascha> I removed everything from my build dir and copied the rockbox.iriver
13:32:54 < _FireFly_> mybe you must also copy the *.codec files into .rockbox/codecs/ on the iriver
13:32:55 < linuxstb> arkascha: Did you do a "make zip" and then uncompress the zip to your iriver?
13:32:59 < arkascha> ok, maybe I have to copy anything else?
13:33:08 < ghode|afk> heh
13:33:10 < ghode|afk> yes ;p
13:33:10 < linuxstb> arkascha: Yes - do a "make zip".
13:33:16 < arkascha> no I did not zip, it's a single file
13:33:36 < ghode|afk> you need to replace the whole dir + .iriver file when updating
13:33:40 < _FireFly_> try make zip and copy the files in the zip onto you iriver
13:33:53 < arkascha> ooops
13:34:17 < linuxstb> Under Linux, I simply do "make zip" followed by "unzip rockbox.zip -d /iriver/" where /iriver/ is the mount point for my H140.
13:34:32 < arkascha> ahem, which dir does have to be replaced?
13:34:57 < linuxstb> rockbox.zip includes your rockbox.iriver, plus the files in the .rockbox directory.
13:35:33 < arkascha> ?? the build dir contains all sort of files I *never* copied...
13:35:37 < _FireFly_> what about the daily-builds ?? why it doesn't gave an daily-build from yesterday ??
13:35:42 < _FireFly_> no arkasha
13:35:51 < _FireFly_> type make zip in your build dir
13:36:02 < linuxstb> _FireFly_: Not sure, but other strange things are happening on the server - such as missing IRC logs.
13:36:14 < _FireFly_> and copy the files in the created zip-file to your iriver
13:36:54 < _FireFly_> this zip-file includes the rockbox.iriver and all needed files which resists in the .rockbox dir on the iriver
13:38:18 < arkascha> ok, looks like oggs work again now, thanx. But I never copied the complete build dir to my iriver. Does it say so in the compile instructions?
13:38:35 < ghode|afk> if it doesn't, it should
13:38:50 < _FireFly_> the problem is, that the rockbox.iriver file doesn't includes the codecs :)
13:39:07 < arkascha> sure I see that point :-)
13:39:10 < _FireFly_> the codec are seperate file which are in .rockbox/codecs
13:40:47 < arkascha> ok, so once again... and comment about the vcard idea?
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13:44:27 < solexx> from a user's pov: i wouldn't use (if you think of it as some kind of address book)
13:44:40 < solexx> I handle such stuff with my mobile phone
13:45:04 < solexx> the mein reason would be the lack of a decent input mechanism (keyboard)
13:45:07 < solexx> main
13:45:43 < solexx> and I carry my mobile phone more often with me than my iriver
13:46:10 < arkascha> ok, but I hate mobiles and have a collection of vcds from my address book I used to import as text files to the iriver. that works but files are ugly to read, so I thought about beautifying their look...
13:46:27 < arkascha> we could stick to the standard format this way
13:46:47 < arkascha> I mean instead of translating all addresses to native formats for mobiles
13:46:58 < solexx> if you need it: i say do it
13:47:04 < arkascha> :-)
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14:05:56 < solexx> hi amiconn
14:06:06 < amiconn> hi
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14:06:26 < solexx> are you familiar with how the wps is parsed?
14:06:33 < solexx> (the cfg file)
14:07:26 < solexx> paul_the_nerd and I talked about it yesterday
14:07:35 < amiconn> no, not really
14:07:37 < solexx> and we found some reproducable bugs
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14:19:06 < linuxstb> amiconn: Am I right in saying that lcd_mono_bitmap_part() isn't currently used in Rockbox?  I can't find it using grep.
14:19:19 < amiconn> It is used
14:19:26 < amiconn> ...by lcd_mono_bitmap()
14:20:38 < linuxstb> But it sounds like you want to use it for the WPS quite soon?
14:20:45 < amiconn> ...and it would be used in wps if my idea gets implemented (clip regions from a larger bitmap)
14:21:38 < _FireFly_> a simple solution might be when additional to the tag the coords and the size of the bitmap part will be provided
14:21:58 < _FireFly_> in the wps
14:22:24 < amiconn> Yes
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14:23:26 < amiconn> However, I'd like to find a way that shortens the wps code
14:23:50 < amiconn> I mean the wps definition language code
14:24:38 < _FireFly_> hmm we could extends the %xl tag so it can optional have the coords and size of the part of an bitmap
14:25:49 < _FireFly_> or n additional tag which defines a kind of virual additional bitmaps for the bitmap in a combined bitmap
14:26:26 < _FireFly_> so %x loades the bitmap complete and the additonal tag defines only the parts 
14:26:33 < _FireFly_> %xl
14:26:50 < amiconn> ...perhaps where a left-out coordinate means 'use the last value'
14:27:21 < _FireFly_> yes
14:27:43 < amiconn> That should help keeping the .wps file small, because often either the x or the y coordinate are identical, as the individual images are below each other, or side by side
14:28:01 -!- preglow [n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no] has quit ["leaving"]
14:28:18 < amiconn> ..and height and/or width are also the same for same-type images (like multiple battery levels etc)
14:28:34 < _FireFly_> you are right
14:30:33 < amiconn> %xl|a|allimgs.bmp
14:30:43 < _FireFly_> an example might be: %xl|a|<bitmap-file>|0|0|  %xp|a|b|<x>|<y>|<width>|<height>
14:31:01 < _FireFly_> can be the coords in the %xl tag left off ??
14:31:02 < amiconn> %xp|b|a|0|0|20|8
14:31:07 < _FireFly_> ;)
14:31:24 < amiconn> %xp|c|a||8||
14:31:48 < amiconn> Would mean the same as %xp|c|a|0|8|20|8
14:31:56 < _FireFly_> yepp
14:32:35 < amiconn> The destination coords should be part of the display tag
14:33:34 < amiconn> As it is now, I would need to load the same .bmp twice if I want to display it in 2 different places
14:34:39 < _FireFly_> this extension means that the IMG struct has an additonal var which indicates if this image is image itself or a part of an image
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14:35:59 < _FireFly_> and the ptr var has only the pointer to the original combined bitmap 
14:36:21 < _FireFly_> if the var (e.g. bool bpart) is true
14:37:41 < amiconn> It doesn't need a bool to indicate whether it's a part.
14:38:04 < _FireFly_> ok 
14:38:05 < amiconn> It just needs the pointer to the bitmap, and the x/y/w/h clip region variables
14:38:27 < amiconn> They would equal 0/0/width/height/ for a full image
14:38:50 < amiconn> ...set by the .bmp loader
14:39:28 < amiconn> %xp would just fill another struct without loading a new .bmp, but instead copying the aliased struct contents and replace x/y/w/h
14:39:32 < _FireFly_> but then we have to change the call lcd_mono_bitmap so it also have an x,y parameter
14:39:42 < _FireFly_> or use lcd_mono_bitmap_part
14:39:55 < amiconn> That's what lcd_mono_bitmap_part() is for
14:40:22 < linuxstb> and lcd_mono_bitmap() is already just a wrapper around lcd_mono_bitmap_part()
14:40:29 < _FireFly_> yo i know
14:40:46 < _FireFly_> so lcd_mono_bitmap would be obsolete
14:40:51 < amiconn> linuxstb: Yes, in order to save some code space as less parameters need to be passed
14:41:06 < amiconn> lcd_mono_bitmap() is called quite often
14:41:11 < _FireFly_> because we have to pass always the x and y coords
14:41:30 < amiconn> _FireFly_: Only in the wps. Many other places will still use lcd_mono_bitmap()
14:42:07 < _FireFly_> hmm thats true
14:42:40 < amiconn> Hmm, in fact we need to store one additional value, and that's the stride parameter
14:47:43 < _FireFly_> is the stride paramter a kind of offset ??
15:11:21 < _FireFly_> i will try to create a plugin for testing combined-images
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15:47:55 < |Lupin|> Hello, folks.
15:48:34 < |Lupin|> I was just wondering: is there any prefered version of gcc / binutils to build RockBox for iRiver players ?
15:49:14 < |Lupin|> Debian comes with facilities to build crossed versions for binutils-2.15 and gcc-3.4.3. Is this ok ?
15:50:29 < _FireFly_> look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler#Coldfire
15:50:38 < linuxstb> I think gcc-3.4.3 should be fine, but binutils-2.16 is recommended.  
15:51:29 < |Lupin|> _FireFly_: linuxstb: thans to both of you...
15:52:20 < |Lupin|> hmm I have absolu!ely no idea how to build a crossed version of binutils-2.16...
15:52:21 < _FireFly_> is there an howto how to compile/make a plugin for rockbox ?? i become some link failures 
15:53:17 < _FireFly_> read the whole site
15:53:25 < _FireFly_> a page i mean
15:57:04 < |Lupin|> Yesthere is one, in the documentation section.
15:57:10 < linuxstb> |Lupin|: Just follow the instructions at the link _FireFly_ gave you.  You simply download the source, untar it, and then do the normal configure, make, make install (but with special parameters to the configure).
15:57:28 < |Lupin|> _FireFly_: You can also download the sources from CVS (or tarballs) and have a look to docs/README
15:58:08 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: Is it really riskyto useThe binutils-2.15 Debian provides ?
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15:58:53 < _FireFly_> i got it
15:59:13 < linuxstb> |Lupin|: I don't think it's "risky" - just try it and see what happens.
15:59:40 < _FireFly_> i had called some functions(e.g. splash) without using the api-pointer
15:59:48 < _FireFly_> to call the functions 
16:00:54 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: What I meant with risky was: Do you think that binutils-2.15 insteadof 2.16 can damage definitely a player ?
16:02:21 < amiconn> Most likely 2.15 won't work
16:02:28 < amiconn> (at build time)
16:03:00 < |Lupin|> amiconn: ok, thanks.
16:03:07 < amiconn> Iirc, binutils 2.15 don't know about the emac unit, so assembling rockbox code will fail
16:04:46 < |Lupin|> amiconn: Just out of curiosity, may IAsk whatthe emac unit is, please ?
16:06:30 < amiconn> emac = enhanced multiply-accumulate unit, a unit supporting dsp-like operations
16:07:44 < |Lupin|> ahah, ok, thanks.
16:10:19 < linuxstb> Has anyone else noticed that running the X11 sim under Linux breaks the X11 keyboard repeat - i.e. after running the sim, keyboard repeat is off for every X application.
16:10:31 < linuxstb> Or is it just my installation...
16:11:31 < _FireFly_> i have noticed it also
16:11:42 < linuxstb> I have to type "xset r on" after running the sim to turn repeat back on.
16:12:01 < amiconn> linuxstb: It shouldn't. If it does, something within X11 is broken
16:12:02 -!- Paul_The_Nerd [n=paulthen@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #rockbox
16:12:46 < amiconn> The sim needs to disable keyboard repeat for the button simulation to work properly, but only does so when its window is active.
16:13:15 < amiconn> It should reenable keyboard repeat on exit and when its window is deactivated
16:13:29 < |Lupin|> Would it be difficult To write a text-mode UI simulator, guys ?
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16:15:34 < linuxstb> amiconn: I've just found the problem - it segfaults on exit, and doesn't get as far as calling the restore function.
16:15:41 < linuxstb> I didn't notice that before.
16:16:22 < amiconn> So there's something to fix...
16:16:57 < linuxstb> Yes...
16:17:32  * amiconn summons LInusN
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16:17:58 < linuxstb> It seems to be something to do with voice UI.
16:18:06 < linuxstb> (this is an iriver sim)
16:18:15 -!- XavierGr [n=XavierGr@ppp11-adsl-245.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #rockbox
16:19:39 -!- Raxus [i=Raxus@athe530-d178.otenet.gr] has joined #rockbox
16:20:37 < XavierGr> Raxus hello if you want to PM you have to register your nick
16:21:34 < Raxus> XavierGr...xaderfos edw
16:21:58 < Raxus> kala...den epitrepontai ta PM edw?
16:22:22 < XavierGr> speak to english
16:22:30 < Raxus> ok
16:22:42 < Raxus> sorry
16:23:09 < XavierGr> Do you know how to register?
16:23:09 < Raxus> So i have to register before u send me the file?
16:23:21 < XavierGr> wait
16:24:27 < amiconn> XavierGr: You can allow privmsgs from unregistered users
16:24:32 < Raxus> Yes I see your PM
16:24:53 < XavierGr> how?
16:24:56 < XavierGr> amiconn
16:25:29 < amiconn> . /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
16:25:37 < amiconn> (w/o the dot)
16:26:15 < Raxus> XavierGr...I hadd DCC Ignore for .exe files...I just disabled it, try to send it again plz
16:26:16 < amiconn> This does only work if you're registered and identified yourself, and is a permanent setting
16:26:25 < amiconn> (until you reset it again)
16:28:36 -!- webguest93 [n=3efe0020@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
16:29:10 < webguest93> in the chat logs recently I've seen references to root.m3u - is that produced automatically?
16:29:52 < Raxus> XavierGr...wait
16:30:03 < solexx> webguest93: playlist options -> create playlist
16:30:33  * solexx still wants a menu entry which creates an empty playlist
16:30:47 < webguest93> ahh right - I know you can create a recursive playlist.. I just wasn't sure if "root.m3u"  was a new feature
16:31:04 < amiconn> shweet :)
16:31:21 < amiconn> Now I have my iriver running at 45/124 MHz instead of 48/120
16:31:39 < amiconn> (preparation for a better timer handling at cpu frequency changes)
16:32:03 < Paul_The_Nerd> Heh
16:36:42 < webguest93> playlists are just standard m3u playlists right? It would be kinda neat if you could associated extra settings with them like....
16:36:55 < webguest93> I want this playlist to start shuffled
16:37:09 < webguest93> I want the playlist re-shuffled everytime I load it
16:37:13 < webguest93> and so on
16:38:42 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah, I was reading mention of ideas like that in a thread at MR.
16:40:48 < webguest93> I don't actually know anything about the format of an m3U file - does it have comments info like that could be stored in?
16:41:09 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well, if you were gonna do that, you may as well just define a custom rockbox playlist format anyway.
16:41:25 < webguest93> that I think would get a lot of opposition
16:41:32 < webguest93> and probably rightly so
16:41:36 < Paul_The_Nerd> Why?
16:41:52 < webguest93> people crete playlists with outher software and copy them over
16:42:01 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
16:42:07 < Paul_The_Nerd> But you don't have to remove .m3u support
16:42:27 < Paul_The_Nerd> You can just have an "improved" m3u-based format.
16:42:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> Which would essentially be an m3u with a line at the start containing playback mode information, and a different extension on the file.
16:44:03 < webguest93> true... but then if you start with a standard one and change it to include extra info - you end up with 2 copies old and new format - not a biggy i know but irritating
16:44:56 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well, you can delete files on the fly
16:45:12 < Paul_The_Nerd> Once the user's updated the playlist, they can just delete the .m3u version.
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16:46:15 < webguest93> yep - like I said - not a big issue
16:47:36 < webguest93> it seems that m3u "extended format" files contain extra info - but there's no space for custom info 
16:47:38 < webguest93> http://www.schworak.com/programming/music/playlist_m3u.asp
16:47:54 < webguest93> ah well just an idea - and a low priority one.
16:48:00 < webguest93> goota go
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16:49:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> Hrm... extended m3u looked kinda pointless to me. =/
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16:57:01 < _FireFly_> ok my plugin works :)
17:01:05 < Paul_The_Nerd> For the purpose of?
17:01:06 < XavierGr> what plug-in?
17:01:31 < _FireFly_> a test plugin for combined bitmaps
17:01:34 < Paul_The_Nerd> Aaah
17:01:53 < _FireFly_> it can be found + source here http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/combined_bmp.zip
17:02:28 < _FireFly_> i have used a combined bmp from the iriver firmware
17:04:53 < Paul_The_Nerd> Y'know... with combined bitmaps you could also pretty easily add support for animations then.
17:05:34 < _FireFly_> thats up to you how to use the posibility of using combined images ;)
17:06:26 < _FireFly_> this is only a test it, amicon and i was thinking how to extend wps to display parts of combined bitmaps
17:06:34 < _FireFly_> -it
17:07:21 < Paul_The_Nerd> All that *really* does is increase the number of images you can use by allowing you to combine multiple similar ones into one file though, practically speaking right?
17:08:05 < _FireFly_> yepp and reduce the size of the wps
17:08:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
17:08:39 < Paul_The_Nerd> Still, a very cool feature.
17:08:52 < _FireFly_> so that you have only one bitmap to load and than you create(over a seperate wps-tag) the parts
17:14:24 < _FireFly_> the number of images or parts of images will be restricted to 52 because valid image id will be at the moment only a-z or A-Z
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17:15:55 < Paul_The_Nerd> Wouldn't it make sense to have that number be 52^2
17:16:04 < Paul_The_Nerd> You have 52 images, with 52 parts each?
17:16:47 < _FireFly_> for this the id must be extended to two chars
17:16:49 < Paul_The_Nerd> %xdaa through %xdaZ whith those all being parts of a
17:17:08 < _FireFly_> and i don't know if this will be accepted
17:17:19 < Paul_The_Nerd> Aaaah
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17:18:47 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well, what's the benefit if parting then?
17:19:37 < _FireFly_> mainly to reduce the size of the wps
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17:19:42 < _FireFly_> a little bit
17:19:56 < Paul_The_Nerd> Don't you have to define the parts themselves though?
17:28:51 < Paul_The_Nerd> Is there a defined number of maximum sublines?
17:34:14 < _FireFly_> Paul_The_Nerd, you are right this won't be really reduce the size of wps
17:34:31 < Paul_The_Nerd> I think it does simply things though.
17:34:48 < Paul_The_Nerd> One option is to completely redefine the way wps images are handled.
17:34:54 < linuxstb> One advantage is that it reduces the number of .bmp files you need on the disk.
17:34:57 < Paul_The_Nerd> Exactly
17:35:30 < Paul_The_Nerd> One could just pair .wps and .bmp files, and in the future have it only handled by parting? (Just as an example alternative)
17:35:45 < Paul_The_Nerd> The wps always loads the .bmp with the same filename, and that's that.
17:36:16 < Paul_The_Nerd> It'd be a bit of an overhaul, and break WPS screens worldwide though. :(
17:36:18 < Paul_The_Nerd> Heh
17:36:26 < _FireFly_> no the file will be only once loaded
17:37:02 < _FireFly_> and becomes a id
17:37:34 < _FireFly_> the parts will be generated by giving this id to the wps-tag which will be used to generate the parts
17:38:19 < _FireFly_> i have updated my zip file because the bmp was in grayscale
17:38:29 < _FireFly_> not 1 bit color depth
17:46:55 < Paul_The_Nerd> Does the alternating sublines have a limit at 12?
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17:58:56 < _FireFly_> Paul_The_Nerd, ups i missunderstood you 
17:59:20 < Paul_The_Nerd> Hrm?
17:59:31 < _FireFly_> in conjunction with the "The wps always loads the .bmo files.."
17:59:41 < Paul_The_Nerd> Oh, right
17:59:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah, that was just my mind wandering to random ideas.
18:00:00 < _FireFly_> ;)
18:00:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> I think the WPS code needs to be audited by someone who knows it... as it is, there's some extra characters getting appended I think.
18:01:12 -!- muesli- [i=muesli_t@Bbc92.b.pppool.de] has joined #rockbox
18:02:01 < muesli-> re
18:02:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> Re?
18:02:28 < muesli-> hehe..always the same discussion about 're'
18:02:29 < muesli-> ;)
18:02:37 < muesli-> re= back
18:03:44 < Paul_The_Nerd> Ah.
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18:03:48 < Paul_The_Nerd> Fair enough
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19:57:04 < _FireFly_> hi amiconn
19:57:26 < amiconn> hi
19:58:00 < _FireFly_> amiconn a test plugin for combined_bitmaps can be found on http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/
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20:16:17 < amiconn> _FireFly_: As I already said, you need to store the stride value in the structure
20:17:07 < _FireFly_> you are right or we must define how the bitmaps have to created
20:17:09 < amiconn> In your demo case it will work without it, because the partial bitmaps all have the same width (30)
20:17:33 < _FireFly_> no i had to
20:17:43 < _FireFly_> look at the source which is also in the zip-file
20:18:05 < amiconn> ...and you added a manual correction for it, as the .bmp width is 32 pixels
20:18:25 < _FireFly_> for the included bmp a stride must be width of bitmap plus 2
20:18:49 < amiconn> Yes, as the partial images are 30 pixels and the total width is 32 pixels
20:19:08 < amiconn> Stride must always be the width of the complete bitmap
20:20:14 < amiconn> When the partial images have different widths, such a manual correction will no longer work
20:21:57 < _FireFly_> also for combined bitmaps, where the parts not beneath each other but side by side ??
20:22:07 < amiconn> yes
20:22:08 < _FireFly_> must be the stride the width of the bitmap ??
20:22:10 < _FireFly_> ok
20:22:41 < _FireFly_> ok now i know for what the stride is :)
20:23:03 < _FireFly_> it indicates where the next bitmap line begins
20:23:10 < amiconn> yup
20:23:57 < _FireFly_> ok when i back to linux i will test it if i set stride to the with from img[0] which is the complete bitmap
20:24:02 < _FireFly_> width
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20:40:32 < webguest20> Hi guys.  Odd behaviour in build 051001-1258 in H120.  Power up, press A-B, select FM Radio, Press Play - blank screen.  Now cursor up for repeated "sound settings" menu option over and over.
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20:52:14 < solexx> I can confirm that (build from sep-30 with remote patch)
20:53:31 < _FireFly_> hmm i cannot confirm that(latest cvs with remote and dirchache patch)
20:54:02 < _FireFly_> when you press play in FM-Radio the preset menu will be shown up
20:54:22 < _FireFly_> but if no preset are defined the display is blank
20:54:28 < amiconn> yup
20:57:49 < solexx> hm. 
20:58:45 < solexx> _FireFly_: do you also have a downloadable with remote *and* dircache patch?
20:58:54 < solexx> downloadable build
21:04:18 < _FireFly_> in a few minutes :)
21:04:38 < solexx> nice!
21:04:54  * solexx thinks rockbox should have branches in its cvs
21:06:04 -!- hd [i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net] has joined #rockbox
21:06:50 < _FireFly_> it can be found on home.arcor.de/s.wezel the file is rockbox.zip
21:07:02 < _FireFly_> it's e complete build with all necessary files
21:07:06 < _FireFly_> -e a
21:08:16 < solexx> got it
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21:11:11 < XavierGr> amiconn: any idea why cpu_idle_mode function can have a bad tuning effect on the FM radio for the iriver?
21:13:59 < solexx> is there a way to trigger (re-)generation of the dir cache?
21:17:27 < XavierGr> why do that?
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21:23:03 < solexx> i just installed _FireFly_'s build with dircache and i don't think the cache is already there
21:24:09 < solexx> i expect the disk not to spin up when using the dir browser
21:24:12 < solexx> am i wrong?
21:25:35 < solexx> on first boot, rockbox said "dirbuffer full" or sth like that
21:25:59 < |Lupin|> Guys: does the cross-gcc we need to compile rockbox have to support C++, or is C enough ?
21:27:11 < XavierGr> solexx did you enabled the dircache?
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21:27:52 < XavierGr> also if it said dirbuffer full it means that you have in a folder more than 400 subfolders.
21:28:12 < _FireFly_> |Lupin|, only C
21:30:16 < solexx> then i increased the limits and the message went away
21:30:31 < |Lupin|> _FireFly_: Thanks.
21:32:00 -!- solexx_ [n=jrschulz@c219081.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #rockbox
21:32:16 < solexx_> (sorry for my lagging responses, my wifi is currently broken)
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21:33:17 < solexx_> XavierGr: thanks for the hint. didn't know i had to enable it and  didn't find it on the first quick search
21:33:21 < solexx_> now it's on
21:33:48 < XavierGr> isn't it awesome? Now you can browse and the HD will never spin on.
21:34:04 < XavierGr> Also no you can set the spin of the disk to a lower value.
21:34:05 < dpassen1> how much does it add to boot time?
21:34:20 < XavierGr> 2-3 seconds but only in the first boot.
21:34:33 < dpassen1> sounds nice
21:34:41 < XavierGr> In other boots it will just spin the disk for a little longer.
21:34:54 < XavierGr> but it is transparent for the user.
21:35:06 < dpassen1> excellent, i believe i will give it a shot
21:35:36 < XavierGr> solexx: Also now you can set the spin of the disk to a lower value. Because browsing will not set the disk on.
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21:35:55 < solexx_> XavierGr: this is awesome!
21:35:56 < |Lupin|> Someone using Debian, here, please ?
21:36:09 < XavierGr> I had it to 10 seconds before the patch. To be able to re think If I wanted to select something else.
21:36:12 < linuxstb> |Lupin|: Yes.
21:36:23 < solexx_> feels even better than i expected
21:36:50 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: May I ask how youset up the xgcc, please ?
21:37:52 < linuxstb> I just followed the Wiki instructions - downloaded the source to binutils and gcc and cross-compiled them myself.
21:38:17 < linuxstb> I mean "compiled it as a cross-compiler" myself"
21:38:40 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: ahah. So you didn't follow Debian's instruction, and probably youwere right...
21:38:57 < linuxstb> No - there is nothing to be gained by doing it the "debian way".
21:39:09 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: And jcd you have to give special options to gcc's configure, so that it finds the right version of binutils ? 
21:39:40 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: It's what I didn't know, precisely.
21:40:08 < linuxstb> First you compile and install the binutils compiled for m68k-elf.  You then need to add the bin directory containing those binutils to your path, and compile gcc for m68k-elf.
21:40:20 < solexx_> afk
21:41:14 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: ok.
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21:41:24 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: Did you use stow to install the packages ?
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21:41:43 < linuxstb> |Lupin|: No.  Just trust the WIki instructions and ignore Debian :).
21:42:09 < linuxstb> Compile with a prefix like /home/lupin/m68k/ and everything you install will go under that directory.
21:42:13 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: Stow is not debian, is it ?
21:42:26 < linuxstb> |Lupin|: I've never heard of Stow.
21:42:53 < linuxstb> Ah GNU Stow - just googled for it.
21:43:00 < |Lupin|> linuxstb: give it a try, if you havetime. It's a nice tools when you wantTo install something in a clean wau.
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21:55:34 < Slyck> Hello
21:56:08 < Slyck> where can i go to find info on the porting of rockbox to the h300 iRiver? cant find anything on the main rockbox site
21:57:09 < linuxstb> Slyck: Start here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverPort 
21:57:21 < linuxstb> And here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH3XXHardwareComponents
21:57:53 < Slyck> thanks
21:58:26 < Slyck> nice to see the h100 fw is almost completed
21:58:30 < Slyck> looks awesome
21:59:33 < Slyck> whats "Multi-codec Architecture"?
22:00:34 < Slyck> quite a bit done to the h30 aswell didnt think you guys had done anything but the wiggler
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22:07:37 < linuxstb> Slyck: "Multi-codec Architecture" is just the name give to the part of Rockbox that deals with audio playback.  It can handle an unlimited number of codecs via codec "plugins".
22:11:53 < Slyck> nice!
22:11:57 < Slyck> very nice
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22:18:39 < |Lupin|> bye there
22:18:43 < |Lupin|> thanks a lot for helping
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22:45:25 < |Lupin|> Ri again, folks.
22:45:47 < |Lupin|> Sorry to bother you again. I get an error when compiling the firmware for an iRiver 140.
22:46:08 < fuzzie> what error?
22:46:13 < |Lupin|> Thereis a CONVBDF which make doesn't know how to interprete.
22:46:25 < _FireFly_> you have to do a make in tools first
22:46:30 < fuzzie> go into tools, run make there first
22:46:32 < fuzzie> heh
22:46:36 < |Lupin|> (I use a cvs version, and I just did an update)
22:46:51 < |Lupin|> ahah
22:46:55 < |Lupin|> stupid error...
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22:48:05 < |Lupin|> seems to compile much better now, thanks guys.
22:48:17 < |Lupin|> And sorry for not having re-read the doc just before compiling.
22:50:57 < |Lupin|> And now the file which mut be copied on the player is rockbox.iriver, and then just play it like a normal mp3. Right ?
22:51:36 < Lear> No, you need a bunch of files, easily created with "make zip".
22:52:09 < Lear> And you have flashed your unit?
22:52:28 < Lear> (But you can play an .iriver file, which will cause a restart with the new firmware)
22:52:30 < |Lupin|> Lear: no, it is not yet here...
22:53:11 < _FireFly_> you have patch the original firmware with the rockbox bootloader and update the player with the patched version
22:53:32 < |Lupin|> not yet, as I said.
22:53:40 < _FireFly_> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverBoot
22:53:54 < |Lupin|> ok
22:53:56 < |Lupin|> thanks
22:53:59 < |Lupin|> I'll readThat.
22:54:11 < _FireFly_> without the bootloader rockbox won't work ;)
22:54:30 < |Lupin|> oki
22:54:38 < |Lupin|> bye, this time it's t!ue :-)
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22:55:04 < Slyck> im off
22:55:05 < Slyck> ciao
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22:58:15 < _FireFly_> ok i have updated my plugin now you can through an config-file(cb.cfg) specifiy which bitmap should be loaded an wich parts should be generated from the bitmap and where the parts should be displayed
23:01:16 < _FireFly_> max images is restrictet to 10(bitmap+9parts)
23:01:32 < _FireFly_> it can be found + source on home.arcor.de/s.wezel
23:01:53 < _FireFly_> this is a test plugin for combined_bitmaps
23:02:52 < _FireFly_> the source bitmap will be displayed on position 0,0
23:02:56 < _FireFly_> always
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23:14:36 -!- TiMiD[farAway] is now known as TiMiD
23:14:45 < _FireFly_> hi TiMiD
23:15:09 < TiMiD> hi :)
23:15:39 < TiMiD> I've a question (prepare yourself, it's a dumb question ^^)
23:15:52 < TiMiD> what is exacly "id3db" in rb ?
23:16:33 < _FireFly_> i think it's similar to the db thing in the original firmware
23:17:23 < TiMiD> I think so (but I never saw it running (don't find how to activate it in the menus) )
23:17:32 < _FireFly_> afaik which this db you can sort our files depending on id3 tags
23:18:13 < TiMiD> the pbl is that it's somehow handle in the code that also handles file tree view
23:18:23 < TiMiD> (and it's a mess )
23:18:29 < linuxstb__> It's described here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TagDatabase
23:18:33 < TiMiD> ok ty
23:18:36 < _FireFly_> o to slow ;)
23:19:52 < _FireFly_> TiMiD, if you want to know i have written a test plugin for combined bitmaps
23:20:23 < TiMiD> I saw it on the forum :)
23:20:27 < TiMiD> great ;)
23:21:14 < _FireFly_> i have an updated version which can be controled through a config-file
23:21:50 < _FireFly_> it can be found on the same place (home.arcor.de/s.wezel)
23:22:15 < TiMiD> I look
23:29:06 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: how can I test it ?
23:29:26 < _FireFly_> in the zip file there is a test file included
23:29:50 < _FireFly_> simply copy the .rockbox dir in the zip on your player
23:30:59 < TiMiD> yes, that what I did
23:31:07 < TiMiD> I have a .cfg and a .bmp
23:31:20 < _FireFly_> and the plugin is in the plugins dir
23:31:56 < TiMiD> oh
23:31:59 < _FireFly_> ;)
23:32:26 < _FireFly_> in the cfg file can you define the bitmap to be loaded and up to 9 parts
23:32:28 < TiMiD> I don't see it (maybe because you put in plugins/ and rb only looks into rocks/
23:32:38 < _FireFly_> ups 
23:32:53 < _FireFly_> my failure
23:33:00 < TiMiD> ok
23:33:03 < _FireFly_> it should be in rocks/ ;)
23:33:04 < TiMiD> I ran it manually :p
23:34:03 < _FireFly_> ok the zip is corrected
23:34:47 < TiMiD> ok so it takes a ingle bmp and extracts parts that can be displayed where you want ?
23:34:54 < _FireFly_> yapp
23:35:05 < TiMiD> like sprites (for example in rpg maker :D)
23:35:29 < _FireFly_> it usese the lcd_mono_bitmap_part function
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23:36:10 < _FireFly_> i have extended the used image struct in the plugin so i holds now the source coords and the strade value
23:36:19 < _FireFly_> it holds
23:36:41 < mrelwood> is it common knowledge that the pcm recording in iriver has left and right channels swapped?
23:38:05 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: what you could do is to create an id for each part so that a part can be accessed (eventually displayed) by specifying its id
23:38:52 < TiMiD> then it could become used in wps ^^
23:38:56 < _FireFly_> ;)
23:39:05 < TiMiD> (instead of loading tons of bmp
23:39:45 < mrelwood> are people using the pcm recording, or is it just for reference?
23:39:45 < _FireFly_> the plugin is an result from the thinking about using combined bitmaps in wps with amiconn
23:39:53 < TiMiD> next step : animated gray_scale bmps :D
23:40:42 < _FireFly_> that should be no problems insteed lcd_mono_bitmap_part use lcd_bitmap_part ;)
23:40:56 < _FireFly_> but then it works only for the main-lcd
23:41:02 < _FireFly_> the remote is monchrome
23:41:15 < TiMiD> technically you can do gray-scale on remote display
23:41:24 < _FireFly_> really ??
23:41:42 < TiMiD> (I saw it when testing my lists, it was going so fast and it was gray :p)
23:41:49 < mrelwood> are you planning display plugins for iriver h300?
23:42:03 < TiMiD> mrelwood: h300 is not even supported :(
23:42:11 < _FireFly_> no for the iriver H1xx serie currently
23:42:22 < _FireFly_> a extension to the wps 
23:42:25 < mrelwood> okay. cool :)
23:42:28 < TiMiD> but when it will it will have the same functionnalities as the other players
23:42:44 < mrelwood> any of you worked with the recording?
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23:43:00 < _FireFly_> i think most of the code for H1XX could be used also for the H3xx
23:43:16 < TiMiD> yes, exceped display code -____-
23:43:42 < _FireFly_> yepp that is the only thing that must be written from scrach due the color display ;)
23:43:49 < TiMiD> I think (but it's my personnal opinion) that the code needs some cleaning
23:44:11 < TiMiD> I'm working on tree.c and it's hell :(
23:44:34 < _FireFly_> yepp 
23:44:34 < TiMiD> (oops I hope the guy who wrote it isn't connected XD)
23:44:54 < TiMiD> it's the same with wps I suppose ?
23:45:13 < mrelwood> i guess the recording feature is not at the top of the priority list?
23:45:50 < _FireFly_> i think the complexity of these codes is grow by each new device which is supported by rockbox
23:45:50 < TiMiD> mrelwood: I don't know ... if you want you can submit patches for thsi :)
23:46:03 < TiMiD> yes
23:46:12 < TiMiD> and there are too many global variables :(
23:46:34 < mrelwood> i would've started working on it 1.5 years ago if I knew a slightest bit about coding...
23:46:37 < mrelwood> :)
23:46:54 < TiMiD> also to handle id3db and file browsing in the same file was a bad idea :D
23:47:35 < _FireFly_> the only positive of this might be that no code must be written double
23:47:47 < TiMiD> mrelwood: then strike a dev until he wants to code it ^^
23:48:20 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: yes, the reason was that id3db display and filetree display was the same code
23:48:33 < _FireFly_> was ??
23:48:37 < TiMiD> but with the things I coded, it could be separated
23:48:43 < mrelwood> is dev a person, or "developer"? (newbie :P)
23:48:44 < TiMiD> is
23:48:45 < _FireFly_> ;)
23:48:55 < _FireFly_> mrelwood: yes
23:48:58 < TiMiD> mrelwood: dev's are not human ^^
23:49:05 < mrelwood> :D
23:49:16 < _FireFly_> mrelwood: dev = developer
23:49:19 < _FireFly_> ;)
23:49:50 < TiMiD> all devs are crazy (at least, it's how it is in my school ^^)
23:50:16 < TiMiD> computer science is dangerous for your brain
23:50:32 < mrelwood> ok. is there a specific "dev" that is fighting the recording feature?
23:51:17 < TiMiD> mrelwood: http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/firmware/pcm_record.c?rev=1.4&view=log
23:51:45 < TiMiD> nothing was commited since Sat Aug 13
23:52:04 < TiMiD> but it doesn't mean noone is working on it (I hope)
23:52:40 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: if there wasn't the id3db, I would rewrite the file tree from scratch I think
23:53:13 < mrelwood> TiMiD, the latest is included in the daily builds, right?
23:53:19 < TiMiD> yes
23:54:42 < _FireFly_> hmm what about this: we have two function(filetree, id3db) which gaves the string to display at a specifig position
23:54:46 < mrelwood> then i've been using the latest since aug 13. :o) Atleast the Rockbox recording doesn't have the iRiver glitch.
23:55:07 < _FireFly_> yepp afaik
23:56:55 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: since the list uses callback functions, this is how it must work :p
23:57:08 < _FireFly_> :)
23:57:15 < TiMiD> I did a callback fn for the filetree
23:57:35 < TiMiD> but it works over the whole filetree arch that also handles id3db
23:57:40 < TiMiD> so it's not clean
23:57:55 < _FireFly_> hmm then you have to split it 
23:58:08 < _FireFly_> if possible
23:58:09 < TiMiD> it unsplittable :D
23:58:18 < _FireFly_> ouch
23:59:02 < TiMiD> if I split I broke everything
23:59:15 < _FireFly_> hmm then a complete rewrite might be necessary
23:59:27 < TiMiD> (becauuse there are also others parts of the fw taht uses things exported by the filetree)
23:59:54 < TiMiD> yeah let's rewrite rockbox ^^
--- Day changed Mon Oct 03 2005
00:00:19 < _FireFly_> i meant mainly the filetree  :)
00:00:46 < TiMiD> it's like a card castle (I don't know if this is how you say it in english)
00:01:18 < TiMiD> if I rewrite smth I must rewrite everything that's linked to it and sicne everything is linked ...
00:01:30 < _FireFly_> i know i have expressed it a little bit bad ;)
00:02:39 < TiMiD> no, you are right
00:02:50 < _FireFly_> maybe we could generate function which gaves the needed information to this parts of the fw which needed information from the filetree
00:03:47 < _FireFly_> temporary
00:04:06 < TiMiD> not temporary :p
00:04:22 < TiMiD> if another part of rb needs some informations then it should have it
00:04:43 < TiMiD> this is to be included in the filetree api
00:04:43 < _FireFly_> ok then not temporary 
00:04:47 -!- amiconn [n=jens@p54BD58D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rockbox
00:05:08 < _FireFly_> hi amiconn have you read the logs or should i say it again about my test plugin
00:05:09 < TiMiD> (but hey it's crazy to rewrite everything !!!)
00:05:12 < TiMiD> hi amiconn 
00:07:07  * amiconn is checking the log
00:07:16 < _FireFly_> ok 
00:12:15 < amiconn> _FireFly_: The problem with greyscale bitmaps in wps is not the change in function
00:12:58 < amiconn> The real problem is that while b&w bitmaps have a notion of foreground & background, greyscale and colour bitmaps are opaque
00:13:26 < _FireFly_> ok
00:13:44 < amiconn> While this isn't a problem for elements which don't overlay text, it will be a problem for a background bitmap
00:14:31 < linuxstb__> amiconn: Is the solution to have a certain colour act as transparent?
00:14:32 < _FireFly_> hmm then it should be if possible  first drawn(the background image)
00:16:01 < amiconn> linuxstb__: That would be very difficult at least. These bitmaps are in native lcd format
00:16:46 < amiconn> _FireFly_: Yes, the wps would need two layers: background and content
00:16:49 < _FireFly_> amiconn: hmm what about when defining which color should be transparent on loading the bitmap
00:17:14 < linuxstb__> amiconn: Are you thinking more about greyscale than colour.  Or both?
00:17:32 < _FireFly_> and then this color is left of by converting the bitmap in nativ lcd-format
00:17:32 < amiconn> It's the same in respect to the problem
00:17:57 < _FireFly_> so that these parts are "empty"
00:18:13 < amiconn> I think supporting greyscale for the small element bitmaps would be too difficult
00:18:34 < amiconn> My idea is that a greyscale or colour background bitmap should be allowed
00:18:50 < _FireFly_> with the widget system, which TiMiD is working on, it might be a less problem to have a back- and foreground for wps
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00:19:02 < amiconn> Preload/display bitmaps should always be monochrome, but with a selectable foreground shade/colour
00:19:06 < linuxstb__> The "blit" function is simpler for colour - at least for 16-bit colour.  In which case it is easier to check for a transparent pixel.  We also have lots of colour values to choose a tranparent one from.
00:19:30 < linuxstb__> If we add transparency to greyscale, we effectively have 5 colours.
00:19:34 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: uh oO ?
00:19:53 < linuxstb__> Which is obviously a problem.
00:20:15 < amiconn> linuxstb__: Bitmaps in rockbox use the native lcd format (or the closest match for monochrome bitmaps and non-monochrome displays)
00:21:19 < TiMiD> amiconn: what about a separated boolean table which would say for each pixel of the bitmap if it must be dran or not
00:21:28 < amiconn> urgs
00:21:36 < TiMiD> like that you could send only the needed pixels to the screen
00:21:37 < _FireFly_> TiMiD: should i haven't said that ?? :)
00:21:55 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: I'm not working on grayscale :p
00:22:36 < TiMiD> amiconn: (but I only looked from far to the grayscale code since it's assembly and I don't want to understand)
00:22:37 < linuxstb__> amiconn: I agree with regards to low depth LCDs.  But with 16-bit, it becomes easier to assign one of the 65536 values to transparency, and check for it when blitting.
00:23:23 < TiMiD> 16 bits on monochrome displays oO
00:23:40 < _FireFly_> i think he mean on color displays ;)
00:23:53 < TiMiD> yep
00:24:34 < TiMiD> even with 8 bits you could use 254 for transparency for example (since it's only 33 shades)
00:24:43 < amiconn> TiMiD: We're not talking about the grayscale lib here, that's definitely code not meant to be used in the core
00:25:30 < amiconn> It draws too much cpu power for everyday hours-long use.
00:25:45 < TiMiD> ok
00:26:02 < amiconn> The H1x0 lcd allows 4 shades of grey, and the lcd driver already supports that
00:26:30 < amiconn> Only very few parts of rockbox already use it, core parts being only splash() and the rockbox logo
00:26:56 < linuxstb__> and Sudoku. :)
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00:27:11 < amiconn> linuxstb__: That's not a core part
00:27:26 < amiconn> Plugins use it as well, that's correct
00:27:33 < _FireFly_> then the only possible solution which i currently see is that we have to implement an background and foreground 
00:27:33 < linuxstb__> Sorry - just read the first half of your sentence.
00:27:39 < amiconn> (sudoku + minesweeper + cube)
00:27:47 < TiMiD> I thought everything was handled by grayscale lib
00:28:16 < amiconn> No, the grayscale lib handles things with >4 shades - up to 33
00:28:21 < linuxstb__> grayscale lib is for displaying more grayscales than the LCD natively supports.
00:28:22 < amiconn> (on archos and H1x0)
00:28:46 < amiconn> There are 3 plugins using it - grayscale, mandelbrot, and the jpeg viewer
00:29:21 < TiMiD> I used it also in plasma and fire plugins (but they are not official ^^)
00:29:21 < amiconn> I'm still planning to use it for porting the solid grey cube mode to archos
00:29:57 < TiMiD> btw, I noticed that the 8bit grayscale is not linear on iriver display
00:30:09 < amiconn> yes
00:30:16 < TiMiD> or at least doesn(t seems
00:30:33 < amiconn> These LCDs aren't really made for greyscale
00:31:05 < TiMiD> you wrote the grayscale lib ?
00:31:10 < amiconn> yup
00:31:12 < TiMiD> :)
00:31:29 < amiconn> I'm currently working on removing the need to boost the CPU all the time
00:31:38 < TiMiD> wouldn't it be possible to add sime kind of palette correction specific to the display ?
00:31:42 < amiconn> It already works, it just needs some more cleanup
00:31:49 < TiMiD> amiconn: seems hard :/
00:31:54 < TiMiD> aw
00:32:05 < amiconn> Not really, once you know how to do it
00:32:26 < TiMiD> I forgot that multitask on rb doens't switch if you don't tell it to
00:32:39 < TiMiD> so it can't switch when writing a pixel ;)
00:32:41 < amiconn> I also want to include the timer tick interrupt into my new CPU frequency transition handling for timers
00:33:41 < amiconn> In order to work best, the new mechanism has only one precondition - the higher frequencies need to be integer multiples of the base frequency
00:34:42 < amiconn> So I shifted the 48 MHz mode to 45 MHz, and 120 MHz will become 124 MHz
00:35:04 < TiMiD> you can control the cpu freq mhz by mhz ?
00:35:44 < amiconn> You set the frequency via 2 dividers which control the PLL
00:35:52 < amiconn> This allows rather fine control
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00:38:24 < tucoz> hi
00:38:29 < TiMiD> hi tucoz 
00:38:49 < tucoz> amiconn: did you see that guy that managed to get blue on his h120?
00:38:58 < tucoz> and what do you think caused it?
00:39:16 < TiMiD> blue oO
00:39:19 < amiconn> tucoz: It's a quite normal effect for that type of LCD. I also got that once on my archos
00:39:25 < tucoz> hehe, ok.
00:39:33 < TiMiD> how is it possible ?
00:39:38 < amiconn> It's just displaying black and the contrast is way higher than normal
00:39:49 < amiconn> Call it 'ultra-black'
00:39:54 < TiMiD> ha :p
00:39:56 < tucoz> http://ihpos.blogspot.com/
00:39:56 < Moos> tempetature way
00:40:04 < tucoz> ah, I see.
00:40:58 < tucoz> short visit, got to go. see you
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00:42:39 < TiMiD> he should have put rockbox in his link section
00:44:11 < linuxstb__> His work would be useful if he had chosen a H300 to play with.
00:44:29 < linuxstb__> But I don't understand his motivation at all with a H140.
00:44:48 < TiMiD> hmm
00:44:55 < TiMiD> I can somehow understand
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00:44:59 < TiMiD> it's fun :)
00:45:35 < TiMiD> some time ago, I seriously thought of trying to port uClinux to iriver
00:45:52 < TiMiD> (but this is too much for me, I'm too lazy)
00:46:11 < linuxstb__> That would be fun because it is new and you would be the first person to do it.  What he's trying to do has already been done by Rockbox.
00:46:31 < TiMiD> hmm
00:46:41 < TiMiD> alternatives are good :)
00:47:21 < linuxstb__> Someone should send him a H300 :)
00:47:40 < TiMiD> no ! i want it supported in rb :p
00:48:23 < linuxstb__> I meant that he could help the port to the H300.
00:48:37 < linuxstb__> But you're right - he is enjoying himself.
00:49:10 < TiMiD> If his code is gpled, then it should be good for everyone 
00:49:33 < amiconn> Hmpf, I have a problem :(
00:49:41 < TiMiD> we can't blame him if he doesn't want to contribute to rb
00:49:42 < linuxstb__> Can anyone help?
00:50:15 < amiconn> If I convert the timer tick to use my new mechanism, I can't do that for the gmini code, so the change will break it
00:50:59 < _FireFly_> than you nee a kind of fallback
00:51:19 < _FireFly_> maybe in source-code through a define
00:51:25 < amiconn> The gmini build is currently unmaintained, but I would like to avoid that
00:51:53 < _FireFly_> so that the old code is used for gmini and your new code for the rest
00:52:22 < linuxstb__> Is the reason you can't do it on the gimini because you don't know how to, or because it can't physically be done?
00:52:22 < amiconn> The problem is that it's a whole new mechanism, I'm even planning to mode the tick timer code to timer.c
00:52:43 < amiconn> I don't know how to as I don't know the hardware
00:53:13 < linuxstb__> How advanced was the gmini port?  Was it working?
00:53:41  * linuxstb__ reads wiki
00:53:45 < amiconn> It was partially working (disk access, browsing), but not playing music
00:56:03 < linuxstb__> You obviously have three choices - don't make your changes, make your changes and break gmini, or add lots of #ifdefs and try and keep the gmini alive with obsolete code.
00:57:12 < TiMiD> I think I would choose #2 :)
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00:57:41 < linuxstb__> Do you think it will be hard for a gmini dev to fix the problems you are planning to cause?
00:57:57 < amiconn> That depends on how the timer works
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00:58:15 < linuxstb__> I see your problem. 
00:58:42 < amiconn> On iriver it is simple, because there's a separate prescaler which allows any factor between 1 and 256, not just powers of 2
00:59:17 < amiconn> I just calculate the timer count for base frequency and prescaler == 1 (or a power of 2 <= 16)
00:59:55 < amiconn> For the higher frequencies I then multiply this prescaler value with the frequency multiplier - that's why it should be an integer number
01:00:27 < amiconn> The factors are 4 and 11, btw
01:06:53 < TiMiD> amiconn: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/SystemLSI/SmartCardController/SmartCardController/Calm16series/S3CC9EF/S3CC9EF.htm
01:07:12 < TiMiD> I don't know if it can be usefull, but it's the cpu of the gmini 
01:07:39 < XavierGr>  amiconn: any idea why cpu_idle_mode function can have a bad tuning effect on the FM radio for the iriver?
01:07:53 < XavierGr> Is there any chance that it will be fixed with your work?
01:08:06 < amiconn> It shouldn't have any effect
01:08:33 < linuxstb__> XavierGr: Have you tried testing with and without Linus's last change?
01:08:37 < XavierGr> Well it has. I was doing test the other night and I made a quick option (on the radio) that toggle the function.
01:09:17 < XavierGr> You can clearly hear a slight mistuning and a slight "pop" on the toggle. Especially when the radio has a bad signal on the sation.
01:09:50 < XavierGr> linuxstb__: yes i removed thos 2 calls to the function and all is good now.
01:10:47 < XavierGr> What battery cost will it have if I remove those 2 calls?
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01:12:00 < XavierGr> Also, I thought that the lowest cpu frequency (currently) is 48mhz. Does the cpu_idle_mode gets this lower?
01:12:52 < amiconn> Yes, to 11 MHz
01:13:24 < XavierGr> hmm this is not viewable by the debug menu I suppose.
01:13:33 < amiconn> It is
01:13:45 < XavierGr> then my bad.
01:13:54 < amiconn> You can even set it there, by pressing select
01:13:56 < XavierGr> so any idea?
01:14:09 < XavierGr> what causing this?
01:14:22 < XavierGr> you can test it yourself.
01:14:34 < XavierGr> tune the radio somewhere in the middle of 2 stations.
01:14:57 < XavierGr> then click to exit the FM (but keep playing) and then reenter.
01:15:17 < XavierGr> on the exit you will hear more static and on the enter a slight pop with the static gone.
01:15:26 < amiconn> Okay, tuning between stations will make the radio pick up all sorts of electrical interference, that's normal
01:16:12 < XavierGr> Try it and in normal station, but then it is a little. more difficult to notice
01:16:17 < amiconn> Idle mode switches off the PLL, so it can't interfere any more...
01:16:29 < XavierGr> normal when the cpu frequency changes?
01:16:42 < amiconn> Hmm, in fact there might be a problem, because the VCO is running at a rather high frequency
01:16:56 < XavierGr> VCO?
01:17:14 < amiconn> voltage controlled oscillator
01:18:07 < amiconn> It generates a rather high clock (between 200 and 400 MHz) that is used as the base for generating the actual cpu clock
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01:18:46 < amiconn> I just found out something - does the static have its maximum around 95.9..96 MHz?
01:19:42 < amiconn> If so, Linus chose a bad VCO frequency for 48 MHz mode. VCO frequency is 383.8644 MHz there. Divide that by 4...
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01:20:17 < XavierGr> I will make some test and get back to you.
01:20:26 < XavierGr> ^tests
01:25:43 < XavierGr> Ok here is a more clear situation. I tune manually to 96.0 and I hear nothing (a little pops and hiss) (all this at 11mhz) if I set it to 48 and 120mhz I can clearly here music, though in a very mistuned way.
01:27:12 < amiconn> Hmm, that's strange
01:29:31 < XavierGr> And yes and in weel tuned stations you can hear a fain pop between transitions of 11mhz and the other states.
01:29:37 < XavierGr> ^well
01:30:00 < amiconn> That's probably caused by the activation/deactivation of the PLL
01:30:01 < XavierGr> I guess you will have to test it too, maybe I have a faulty unit.
01:30:21 < XavierGr> BUT I cant hear it between 48 and 120mhz
01:30:39 < amiconn> Yes, there the PLL is just reprogrammed
01:30:59 < amiconn> 48 and 120 MHz use the PLL, 11 MHz does not
01:31:18 < XavierGr> so, is there anything that can be done, or we just have to live with it as the LCD screen?
01:31:50 < amiconn> I don't think there's anything we can do
01:32:01 < amiconn> (except not using 11 MHz in the radio screen)
01:32:30 < XavierGr> And I think that not using the 11 mhz maybe is a waste for the radio...
01:33:14 < XavierGr> so I will leave those 2 calls and what the hell how often does someone will have to exit and reenter the FM
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01:34:33 < XavierGr> Though I solved that "BOOM" sound when reentering this small click will remain. (Linus had forgotten to make an if statment for some radio_set functions which cause the loud POP)
01:35:25 < XavierGr> Is there any values for battery consumption between 11mhz and 48mhz?
01:40:13 < XavierGr> So amiconn do you time to inspect (or even commit) my patch for the FM preset?
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01:58:03 < webguest23> Seems that IRC logs at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ go up to 2005/09/29 but no further...  Manually editing the URL to point to 20051001.txt (for example) yields a 404 not found.
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02:05:22 < ep0ch> hmm where are Octobers logs? 
02:05:50 < webguest23> Exactly!  :)
02:08:03  * Colddy Winamp 5.08 - Cocoa Tea  - Who (playing) - 32kHz 128kbps stereo - 4m 9s long |>>>>>>>>>>> (20%)|
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02:51:23 < amiconn> Wee, my method works for the timer tick, and it's rather precise
02:51:39 < amiconn> (good for those who want to implement a clock on H1x0 ;) )
02:55:05 < TiMiD> congratulation !
02:55:19 -!- TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[ZZZzzz]
02:55:28 < TiMiD[ZZZzzz]> and good night !
02:55:51 < _FireFly_> night
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03:04:30 < amiconn> Oooh, there's an ooooollld Bug in kernel.c - the timer count is off by one
03:06:52 < amiconn> -> For *all* platforms (!!) <-
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03:15:01 < amiconn> Timer error: 1/15000 for archos Ondio and player, 1/13824 for archos recorders, and 1/3582 for H1x0
03:16:21 < amiconn> Meaning, a clock would drift ~6 seconds per day on archos, and ~24 seconds per day on H1x0
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04:59:42 < grimreap> is anyone familiar with bookmarking on the ondio?
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05:06:04 < webguest82> hello
05:06:22 < Paul_The_Nerd> Hello
05:06:57 < webguest82> is it yet possible to display album art while playing music on IHP 120?
05:07:25 < Paul_The_Nerd> No.
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06:42:25 < random_man> i have a question about the remote patch that is about rwps files
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09:45:37 < Bger> hi all
09:45:46 < Bger> what's the problem with irc logs ?
09:55:04 < Bger> B4gder ?
09:56:05 < B4gder> the server is evil on me atm
09:56:09 < B4gder> working on it
09:56:19 < Bger> okay, 10x
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 03 10:47:52 2005
--- Log opened Mon Oct 03 10:54:45 2005
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11:07:59 < amiconn> morning
11:09:17 < amiconn> Hmm, no LinusN :(
11:15:37 -!- LinusN [n=linus@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
11:16:07 < amiconn> hi LinusN :)
11:16:15 < LinusN> hi, saw that you missed me
11:17:13 < amiconn> I've implemented a new timer handling when changing cpu frequency according to my old idea
11:17:50 < amiconn> I found a really old bug in kernel.c / tick_start() while doing that
11:17:52 < LinusN> ah, did it work well?
11:18:00 < amiconn> yes
11:18:00 < LinusN> ouch
11:18:19 < amiconn> Nothing really serious, but the timer count was off by one
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11:18:49 < LinusN> oh
11:18:49 < amiconn> I double-checked the CPU datasheets for that
11:19:07 < amiconn> The error was rather small on archos, but somewhat larger on iriver
11:19:08 < LinusN> which platform?
11:19:12 < amiconn> all
11:19:23 < LinusN> oh again
11:20:11 < amiconn> Check sh7032.pdf page 321 (in adobe reader) (10.9.1 Note on Waveform Cycle Setting)
11:21:09 < amiconn> and MCF5249UM.pdf page 177 (in adobe reader) (11.5.2 Timer Reference Registers)
11:21:29 < amiconn> I'd like you to have a look at my code before commit
11:22:00 < amiconn> There's one thing I don't like that much myself, but I have no idea how to change it without major code shuffling:
11:22:37 < amiconn> The tick timer is set up in kernel.c, but the prescaler adjustment on clock change happens in timer.c (together with the user timer)
11:23:07 < LinusN> ah, yes
11:23:10 < amiconn> I could separate this into 2 functions, but that would produce more code
11:23:19 < LinusN> leave it like that
11:23:56 < amiconn> I've also adjusted the refresh counters according to the new frequencies
11:24:13 < amiconn> (and for all frequencies on h100, they were somewhat off as well)
11:26:00 < amiconn> http://amiconn.dyndns.org/timer.patch
11:27:28 < B4gder> is there an actual reason why configure doesn't enable sound for the windows sim?
11:27:43 < B4gder> I mean apart from it just not being done
11:30:37 < LinusN> i dunno
11:30:57 < LinusN> amiconn: did you change the meaning of CPU_FREQ vs FREQ?
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11:37:11 < amiconn> LinusN: No, FREQ still is the current CPU frequency, CPU_FREQ is the base frequency
11:37:26 < amiconn> However, I changed the method how timer setup uses them
11:37:56 < amiconn> Timer cycles are always based on the base frequency, the multiplier is handled with the prescaler
11:38:44 < LinusN> ok, so timer_period in backlight.c is always based on the base freq
11:38:47 < amiconn> That's what my patch is about: it allows on-the-fly adjustment without resetting the counter on frequency changes
11:39:16 < amiconn> It also dictates the precondition that the higher frequencies must be integer multiples of the base
11:39:33 < amiconn> Hence 48->45 MHz and 120->124 MHz (x4 and x11)
11:39:49 < LinusN> right
11:40:10 < amiconn> Yes. backlight.c still needs to boost the CPU because the timer period is so small.
11:40:38 < amiconn> Other uses of the user timer, like the grayscale lib, do no longer need that
11:41:29 < amiconn> On frequency change, the period is of course not really stable, and if an interrupt would occur during the PLL locking period, it is delayed
11:41:37 < LinusN> i think the patch look good
11:41:47 < LinusN> of course
11:41:55 < amiconn> This is such a minor disturbance that it doesn't hurt the appearance of the grayscale
11:42:53 < LinusN> there shouldn't be a need to surround cpu_boost() calls with #ifdefs
11:43:04 < amiconn> I chose to delay the interrupt because allowing it during PLL relock would most likely mean that the next period might be stretched even more
11:43:18 < LinusN> yes
11:43:18 < amiconn> The #ifdefs in plugins are necessary
11:43:23 < LinusN> badness
11:43:26 < amiconn> (unfortunately)
11:43:40 < LinusN> we should fix that
11:44:01 < amiconn> ...because 'rb->cpu_boost()'  would  resolve to 'rb->'  which is obviously invalid syntax
11:44:35 < amiconn> There are 2 things in system.c that I couldn't check:
11:45:05 < amiconn> (1) I'm not sure whether the 2 waitstates for lcd and flash at 120 MHz are still sufficient for 124 MHz
11:45:47 < amiconn> (2) Is it really correct  that the IDE timings for 48 MHz and 120 MHz (now 45 MHz and 124 MHz) are the same?
11:46:06 -!- _FireFly_ [n=FireFly@p54A457E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rockbox
11:46:27 < _FireFly_> good morning
11:48:46 < solexx_> moin
11:54:03 < LinusN> 1) iirc, the flash timing has always been wrong, i just haven't cared
11:54:20 < markun> amiconn: Is 33 MHz for the lower frequency maybe enough? Some > real-time codecs could maybe benefit from it.
11:54:54 < LinusN> 2) i believe so, but i'll double check
11:57:12 < amiconn> LinusN: Btw, I have the stopwatch plugin running on recorder and H1x0 for almost 9 hours now, the iriver playing music in the background (.ogg) for the first hour, and my watch's stopwatch for comparison
11:57:26 < amiconn> Error is <2 seconds on both :)
11:57:54 < LinusN> nice
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12:05:37 < amiconn> LinusN: Do you think I should commit the timer patch first? Maybe it's easier to fix the waitstates and IDE timing after that?
12:06:10 < Slasheri> LinusN: hi :) have you tried the new dircache patch? (http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache_rev2.diff)
12:06:22 < LinusN> amiconn: yes
12:06:29 < LinusN> Slasheri: will do
12:06:31 < Slasheri> LinusN: if you find it ok, i could commit it soon (maybe today)
12:06:34 < Slasheri> nice :)
12:07:49 < amiconn> Okay, buckle up...
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12:13:15 < LinusN> Slasheri: when is the cache built for the first time?
12:14:16 < LinusN> in dircache_init()?
12:14:25 < LinusN> sorry init_dircache()
12:15:49 < LinusN> i see that you use the fastboot file to determine the initial cache size
12:15:54 < LinusN> why?
12:16:15 < LinusN> i will never select fastboot, and thus i don't want the file
12:16:24 < amiconn> I suggested to use the config sector for the cache size...
12:16:32 < LinusN> and then it will always scan at boot
12:16:36 < amiconn> LinusN: Why not fastboot?
12:16:51 < LinusN> because it gives me a nice consistency problem
12:16:52 < amiconn> Iiuc, it will *always* scan on boot now
12:17:07 < amiconn> ..the difference being that fastboot scans in the background
12:17:43 < Slasheri> LinusN: that's true, even the fastboot entry is nomore available on the menu.. I think i should move the cache size indicator to the config structure
12:18:24 < LinusN> ok, so the scan is always done in the background?
12:18:31 < Slasheri> amiconn: it always scans on the background (except the first boot()
12:18:33 < Slasheri> yes
12:18:40 < Slasheri> it will not affect the boot time
12:18:49 < LinusN> except the first boot?
12:19:08 < Slasheri> yep, then we must determine how large the cache will get and we cannot do that on background
12:19:35 < Slasheri> (because we need to reserve the space for the cache)
12:20:09 < LinusN> ok, so what happens when i boot the second time, and the cache isn't built? can i still access the dir?
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12:20:49 < Slasheri> of course, if cache is not available, it's just not used and normal direct dir access is used instead
12:21:05 < Slasheri> so the switching between cache and direct dir functions is automatic
12:21:18 < LinusN> ok, so the cache file is only used to keep the size info when fastboot is off?
12:21:24 < Slasheri> yes
12:21:30 < Slasheri> only the headers are read
12:21:40 < LinusN> but the entire file is written?
12:21:45 < Slasheri> correct :)
12:21:54 < Slasheri> but we can fix that
12:22:00 < amiconn> I'd call that a debug feature ;)
12:22:31 < LinusN> what about the fastboot? is it loaded and used while the scan is performed?
12:23:08 < Slasheri> no, and currently user can't even enable that feature (it's not compiled at all, ifdeffed out)
12:23:39 < Slasheri> fastboot info is only saved on shutdown (or usb connection)
12:24:28 < LinusN> how long does a full scan take?
12:24:43 < Slasheri> it's very fast because now we have direct fat_* functions
12:24:52 < Slasheri> a few seconds should be enough
12:25:03 < Slasheri> so it shouldn't even eat the battery (much)
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12:32:02 < amiconn> gtg, bbl
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12:32:58 < LinusN> Slasheri: i'm not that worried about battery, i'm more worried about latency and safety (if you drop it while the disk is spinning)
12:33:45 < Slasheri> ah, dropping is never a good thing.. but what do you mean with latency?
12:34:06 < Slasheri> user should not notice any delays with bootup whether the cache is enabled or not
12:35:37 < Slasheri> btw, i think many users have currently long disk spindown time because that's necessary to browse the files without caching. However, after i enabled the cache, i also lowered the spindown time to almost instantly spindown the disk
12:42:51 < LinusN> that's a good thing
12:43:06 < LinusN> i'll try it myself asap, but atm i'm busy
12:43:35 < Slasheri> ok, good :)
12:47:14 < solexx_> Slasheri: thanks a lot for your work!
12:47:27 < solexx_> I got a build with dircache yesterday and i am really impressed
12:48:18 < Slasheri> solexx_: hehe, that's nice to hear :)
12:51:29 < markun> Slasheri: Does aminconn's latest commit make it possible to remove the cpu_boost from backlight fading?
12:52:19 < LinusN> no
12:52:56 < Slasheri> markun: Hmm, it looks promising. Might be, but we need to try that (i can't right now)
12:53:08 < LinusN> 10.40.08 #       <amiconn> Yes. backlight.c still needs to boost the CPU because the timer period is so small.
12:53:15 < markun> Ah, too bad.
12:58:17  * Bger greps /dev/hda1 for one lost (because of forgotten password with AES encryption) file :(
13:02:14 < solexx_> um, how do you grep for encrypted content?
13:02:40 < Bger> no, for unencrypted 
13:02:41 < Bger> ..
13:02:48 < Bger> with very little hope to find it
13:03:00 < Slasheri> Bger: eh.. if you have lost a password for AES volume, it's then completely impossible to retrieve any data from there with the present machines we have
13:03:15 < Bger> Slasheri : in fact the problem is with one RAR file ...
13:03:54 < Bger> but newer RAR (ver >= 2.9) uses AES for encryption
13:04:09 < Slasheri> ah, hmm
13:08:11 < Bger> while on this topic, i think it's good to have some kind of plugin for encrypting/(decrypting for viewing and after that wiping the info on the disk)... for sensitive data
13:09:10 < Bger> my bad Engl. in action:)
13:09:24 < LinusN> plugin for rockbox?
13:09:28 < Bger> yep
13:09:31 < LinusN> get real
13:09:57 < LinusN> why would you want that?
13:10:33 < Bger> because i have such info on my iriver and i often give it to my friends ... i don't want to have them looking at this
13:12:20 < Bger> at least nothing is stopping me from trying to make such thing for my own
13:12:45 < solexx_> and then you spend five minutes entering your passphrase with the on-screen keyboard? ;-)
13:13:31 < Bger> solexx_ yes, that's a problem, but sometimes it's better to do it on the player itself...
13:15:42 < LinusN> Bger: things like PIN's, passwords and stuff?
13:15:49 < Bger> yes
13:16:00 < LinusN> then write a plugin for that
13:16:11 < Bger> that's what i plan to do
13:16:18 < LinusN> not a general encryption and wiping plugin
13:17:02 < Bger> how do u see it then ?
13:17:11 < Bger> see it like ...
13:20:05 < LinusN> i see it as a plugin for keeping pin's, passwords etc in an encrypted database
13:20:19 < Bger> aha
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13:26:53 < LinusN> the passphrase doesn't have to be an alphanumeric string, ot could very well be a series of combinations of joystick movements, this has been suggested by many
13:28:14 < linuxstb> I think choosing characters from a keypad is a more efficient way of entering a long enough keyphrase.  But I haven't done the maths.
13:28:41 < Bger> the joystick movements are only 4...
13:29:00 < linuxstb> I guess joystick movements will be coded like 3up, 2left, 4right etc
13:29:17 < B4gder> movements are probably harder to remember
13:29:38 < Bger> for sure
13:29:41 < linuxstb> I agree, it seems a nice idea, but I think the virtual keyboard will do a better job.
13:30:03 < Bger> except u're a musician ... up=C, down=D, etc ... :)
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13:41:48 < Slasheri> just use morse code to enter the passphare
13:42:00 < Slasheri> btw, i would like to use morse also for entering filenames!
13:42:10 < Slasheri> that could be a nice thing to implement
13:42:45 < Bger> hehehe
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13:44:31 < Bger_cgiirc> hehe the AES in flash: http://www.iaik.tu-graz.ac.at/research/krypto/AES/old/%7Erijmen/rijndael/Rijndael_Anim_swf.zip
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13:46:02 < Slasheri> another great feature would be to allow volume control while hold is on
13:47:43 < LinusN> not all people agree on that
13:47:57 < Slasheri> true.. maybe an option?
13:48:01 < Bger_cgiirc> option, option :)
13:48:29 < Slasheri> when i have the player on my pocket, it's hard to change the volume without accidentally pressing the joystick or changing tracks
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13:50:49  * LinusN whispers "remote... remote..."
13:51:24 < Slasheri> hehe, yes the remote is good but then you will get pretty much "wired" everywhere ;)
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14:11:56 < Nibbler> Bger_cgiirc: scareh
14:23:54 < Bger_cgiirc> Nibbler: of what
14:24:13 < Nibbler> i did not understand too much of rijndael...
14:24:30 < Nibbler> for me its security by obscurity :] 
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14:25:30 < Bger_cgiirc> heh, it's not
14:25:59 < Bger_cgiirc> why obscurity ?
14:27:04 < Bger_cgiirc> it's simple : you don't know the key - you can't reveal the original data
14:28:01 < Bger_cgiirc> this is rude explanation, of course
14:28:36 < HCl> you mean crude? :p
14:29:01 < Bger_cgiirc> this too
14:30:56 < Bger_cgiirc> I'm in top 3 of rockbox people with worst english:)
14:31:11 < Nibbler> i am sure it is NOT "security by obscurity", cause the algorithem is known. just for me its so obscure i cant understand much of it :-)
14:32:10  * Bger_cgiirc too
14:32:25 < Bger_cgiirc> i don't think it's explained very well
14:33:35 < Nibbler> ah, ok then :)
14:36:06 < Bger_cgiirc> it's not said what state is (i suppose plaintext)...
14:36:44 < Bger_cgiirc> also i don't understand the operation in MixColumns...
14:37:09 < Bger_cgiirc> also what's  S-box
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14:52:37 < amiconn> Bger_cgiirc: A suggestion for entering a code: Instead of a real password using the vkeyboard, you could use sequences, like left-down-left-left-right-up-down-select
14:53:13 < amiconn> Unsing left/right/up/down give means entering 2 bits per button press, not too bad
14:53:28 < amiconn> *Using, -give
14:54:08 < amiconn> Im not sure how well such sequences can be remembered though
14:54:48 < amiconn> For decent security we would need >64 bits, meaning >32-button-sequence
14:55:16 -!- Paul_The_Nerd [n=paulthen@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #rockbox
14:55:31  * amiconn should read the logs more thoroughly
14:58:08 < XavierGr> Logs are gone for the October.
14:58:10 < _FireFly_> i have a test-version with combined-bitmaps in wps(only main-lcd) ready.
14:58:50 < _FireFly_> if someone want to test it can be grapped here:http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox-combined-bmp-wps.zip
14:58:52 < Paul_The_Nerd> Why not just use some public/private key method. Your data can't be decrypted on-box like that, but you'd be able to encrypt using open with making at least "securing" data on your box very simple?
14:59:12 < _FireFly_> a test wps is included
14:59:26 < B4gder> what's "combined" bitmaps?
14:59:47 < _FireFly_> e.g. 4 bitmaps are in one bitmap
14:59:56 < Paul_The_Nerd> One .bmp file, that you use regions of, instead of the whole image.
15:00:25 < _FireFly_> the iriver firmware uses combined-bitmap e.g. for the file-format (ogg, mp3)
15:00:33 < XavierGr> What about integrating this bitmap on the WPS file?
15:00:50 < _FireFly_> ??
15:00:56 < XavierGr> or is this an idiotic idea?
15:01:13 < _FireFly_> i don't understand what do you mean
15:01:20 < XavierGr> Like comments.
15:01:30 < XavierGr> you have the notmal WPS syntax.
15:01:46 < XavierGr> and then you can have the bitmap in side the wps.
15:02:09 < XavierGr> Then the code will check if the code has a bitmap segment and draw the pictures.
15:02:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> XavierGr: That'd make it awfully hard to edit the wps using a simple text editor
15:02:34 < XavierGr> Though someone will have to copy the actuall bitmap data inside the WPS
15:03:43 < XavierGr> Well it can clearly be after the wps syntax, but yeah maybe.
15:03:50 < thegeek_> that sounds like a horrible idea
15:04:27 < thegeek_> I agree there should be some "standard" for distributing a wps
15:04:31 < XavierGr> ok I should stop talking then :p
15:04:36 < thegeek_> with folders for the imagee and stuff
15:04:43 < Paul_The_Nerd> I think integrating it into the .wps itself may not be the best idea. But perhaps removing the ability for a wps to load separate bitmap files
15:04:54 < thegeek_> but combining the actual bitmap data and the wps config itself... bah
15:05:00 < Paul_The_Nerd> Then, the .wps will automatically load a same-named .bmp (Bob.wps + Bob.bmp) and you only use parts.
15:05:03 < B4gder> I think we should (try to) load images from the same dir as the WPS itself is located in
15:05:07 < Paul_The_Nerd> If you wanted to go the way of standardizing it.
15:05:33 < thegeek_> I dont like that either Paul_The_Nerd
15:05:38 < thegeek_> why make it harder?
15:05:52 < thegeek_> keeping the images separate is best, why would you want to combine them
15:06:09 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well for one thing, less files.
15:06:18 < thegeek_> hardly worth it though
15:06:26 < Paul_The_Nerd> Depends on how you define worth.
15:06:31 < thegeek_> well
15:06:40 < thegeek_> how would you combine them into one image?
15:06:53 < thegeek_> the different images would have different sizes
15:07:04 < thegeek_> so no winamp-style standard
15:07:21 < thegeek_> that means you have to define x-y coords or something in the cfg
15:07:36 < thegeek_> and you cant just copy out one image or replace one image with another
15:07:40 < _FireFly_> look at my example wps in the zip fiel ;)
15:07:44 < thegeek_> you have to edit that single image
15:08:05 < _FireFly_> file
15:08:07 < thegeek_> just load images from the same folder as the wps itself, if that fails, try to load from "wpsname"-folder relative to the wps-config itself
15:08:14 < thegeek_> dont make it harder than it has to be
15:08:26 < Paul_The_Nerd> Some of us don't want to have a separate folder for each WPS though thegeek_
15:08:40 < thegeek_> then make a third option
15:08:52 < thegeek_> try to load from /.rockbox/wps/images
15:08:55 < Paul_The_Nerd> I suppose, you could have bob.wps and then a dir named bob, under which all the BMPs were
15:08:56 < Bger_cgiirc> it seems the operation in MixColumns is xor ...
15:09:00 < thegeek_> just make it fallback
15:09:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> But bob.wps doesn't go *in* the bob folder
15:09:25 < thegeek_> that was my second option there
15:09:33 < Paul_The_Nerd> That way you have .rockbox/wps/bob.wps then .rockbox/wps/bob/*.bmp as the bmps it autoloads.
15:09:33 < thegeek_> and yeah
15:09:35 < thegeek_> that would work well
15:09:43 < thegeek_> mhm
15:09:49 < Paul_The_Nerd> But again, if you autoload files, then you can't use them inside the WPS as a-z A-Z
15:09:55 < Paul_The_Nerd> Unless you know what order they're loaded in.
15:10:03 < Paul_The_Nerd> You'd have to address them by filename, and that bloats the .wps size
15:10:08 < thegeek_> autoload?
15:10:13 < thegeek_> well
15:10:20 < thegeek_> bloats the wps size..
15:10:28 < thegeek_> that's bullshit
15:10:32 < thegeek_> just keep the filenames short then
15:10:46 < Paul_The_Nerd> Even then, they'd have to be one-character to match it.
15:10:47 < thegeek_> it's not like the wps-config-format is optimized for bytesize
15:11:04 < Paul_The_Nerd> It's hardly optimized, but it's still limited to a set number of bytes.
15:11:18 < thegeek_> increase that limit then;)
15:11:34 < Paul_The_Nerd> Why?
15:11:42 < Paul_The_Nerd> The current system works.
15:11:48 < thegeek_> indeed it does
15:11:56 < thegeek_> and you complain that it's limited?
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15:12:07 < Paul_The_Nerd> I never complained that it was limited.
15:12:16 < thegeek_> hmm
15:12:29 < thegeek_> you said it was limited to a set number of bytes?
15:12:33 < Paul_The_Nerd> All I said was "If you want to standardize, using parting you could do it this way."
15:12:39 < thegeek_> well
15:12:49 < thegeek_> autoloading images is not a good idea
15:13:01 < thegeek_> having to reference each image is not that horrible
15:13:19 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
15:13:32 < XavierGr> well thegeek speak for yourself, maybe others will see that as a good option
15:13:40 < XavierGr> (though I don't know what I prefer)
15:13:41 < thegeek_> hehe;)
15:13:43 < thegeek_> ofcourse
15:13:53 < thegeek_> but really
15:14:00 < thegeek_> if you "autoload" images
15:14:14 < thegeek_> you could very quickly end up confusing the different images
15:14:23 < Paul_The_Nerd> You could use single character filenames for the autoload, but the problem is that in a non case sensitive environment, you're down to a-z rather than a-z A-Z
15:14:25 < thegeek_> I dont see how having to reference each image is bad
15:14:38 < XavierGr> that why I awas talking about integrating the bMP inside the wps
15:14:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> The problem with that is still that it's far too complex for most people.
15:14:57 < thegeek_> that is still a horrible idea
15:15:04 < webguest71> if you autoloaded ONE image you could use Firefly's method and "cut" every icon or other image out of te main one
15:15:05 < Paul_The_Nerd> The WPS is still on the "difficult" end anyway, for a lot of users.
15:15:06 < thegeek_> we have to think ahead a bit here too
15:15:13 < thegeek_> you cant just put the image inside the wps
15:15:20 < thegeek_> especially when we get colour-screens
15:15:24 < thegeek_> and the images increase in size
15:15:58 < XavierGr> that has nothing to do with the wps.
15:16:11 < XavierGr> the images will still be there if they are in a saperate folder.
15:16:12 < thegeek_> yes it does?
15:16:22 < thegeek_> you said
15:16:23 < XavierGr> only difference it will be on a single file. (all of them)
15:16:24 < thegeek_> inside the wps
15:16:33 < thegeek_> as in inside the wps file itself?
15:16:41 < XavierGr> yes
15:16:43 < thegeek_> the wps file is a textfile
15:16:55 < XavierGr> so...
15:17:00 < thegeek_> what will you do when we get full-colour screens
15:17:02 < XavierGr> bmp is ascii characters
15:17:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> There's still another issue.
15:17:13 < thegeek_> and the images start getting really big
15:17:24 < thegeek_> putting that inside a textfile
15:17:28 < thegeek_> is just a horrible horrible idea
15:17:32 < XavierGr> again the bmps will be after the syntax
15:17:36 < Paul_The_Nerd> Why really bother with more stuff for the current WPS format anyway, in the end?
15:17:38 < thegeek_> so?
15:17:44 < thegeek_> still horrible
15:17:44 < thegeek_> ;)
15:17:53 < thegeek_> keep images out of textfiles
15:17:56 < Paul_The_Nerd> When ideally someone could actually take advantage of the bitmap screens and do per pixel positioning.
15:17:56 < thegeek_> why do it?
15:18:03 < thegeek_> why not keep them as separate files
15:18:14 < webguest71> i don't see the need for putting it in the wps  - one text wps file and one graphics bmp file (same root name) is not that hard to handle
15:18:19 < Bger_cgiirc> Odds of being killed by lightning (per day) 2^33 hehe
15:18:23 < XavierGr> Well yes I don't think that we need to change the wps format, just talking and once you mentioned combined images...
15:18:27 < _FireFly_> oh no what have i done ?? ;)
15:18:45 < Paul_The_Nerd> webguest71: The problem with that is, you still have the issue of "what happens when individual images within it are different shapes"
15:18:50 < Paul_The_Nerd> You ahve a lot of wasted space.
15:18:54 < thegeek_> yes
15:18:58 < thegeek_> as I said
15:19:03 < thegeek_> keep them as separate files
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15:19:23 < thegeek_> perhaps make a better folder-structure, but that's it
15:19:35 < webguest71> is that wasted space that critical?
15:19:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well, for one thing, I don't know how the parting code works yet.
15:20:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> So, I don't know if you define upper left and lower right corner within the bitmap (which would mean that it'd be easy for people to use"
15:20:28 < _FireFly_> am 5 files with one image inside are bigger than one file with all 5 images inside
15:20:29 < Paul_The_Nerd> Or if you define width and height of the tiles, and it auto-parses the .bmp
15:20:38 < thegeek_> I dont see _any_ benefit to putting all images inside one large image
15:20:42 < thegeek_> less files, but so?
15:20:45 < amiconn> The space-waste isn't the problem, but loading heaps of small files takes longer than loading one bigger file
15:20:55 < thegeek_> hmm
15:20:59 < amiconn> It should also help keeping the .wps file size down
15:21:02 < thegeek_> why is that?
15:21:05 < _FireFly_> i have compared my play-mode.bmp with the 5 seperate files from which i have created 
15:21:08 < amiconn> ...and reduce the file clutter
15:21:33 < _FireFly_> the 5 files have a size 458 bytes (all summed) and the one file only 210Bytes
15:21:34 < thegeek_> I think just organizing the wps system would prevent clutter
15:21:37 < B4gder> but make it harder to do a wps and harder to share images between wpses
15:21:40 < _FireFly_> the size is reduced half
15:21:43 < amiconn> I didn't say we should drop multi-file support, but of course we could do that with clipping support
15:21:49 < webguest71> _FireFly_ I like it what you've done - could lead to different skins for a wps file
15:21:51 < webguest71> _firefly_ obviously different wpses with different cuts would need different graphics
15:22:34 < amiconn> Keeping multi-file support and adding clipping support is most flexible, dropping multi-file support in favour of clipping support would probably save some more
15:22:59 < _FireFly_> my currently implementation have both
15:23:12 < _FireFly_> it supports combined bitmaps and seperate bitmaps
15:23:13 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah, I'm definitely not arguing for dropping multi file
15:23:27 < XavierGr> then its settled
15:23:28 < _FireFly_> my example wps has both in use
15:23:51 < _FireFly_> http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox-combined-bmp-wps.zip
15:23:53 < Paul_The_Nerd> I was just arguing one side in an "If multi file was going to be dropped" case.
15:23:53 < XavierGr> when this is going for commitment?
15:25:25  * Paul_The_Nerd still wishes %s didn't make the whole line scroll.
15:25:48 < B4gder> I think it should
15:25:56 < B4gder> but I have an idea on how to make things better
15:26:07 < XavierGr> well he means that he wants to choose.
15:26:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
15:26:23 < Paul_The_Nerd> Well, for example, one way would be to have everything to the right of it scroll
15:26:30 < Paul_The_Nerd> You want the whole line to scroll, you put it first.
15:26:40 < webguest71> what ever happened to the idea about moving away from a line based wps system?
15:26:56 < XavierGr> for some occasions that you want: 1. (scroll)Title
15:26:58 < B4gder> my idea "fixes" that
15:27:05 < B4gder> but still remains line-based
15:27:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> What's your idea B4gder?
15:27:29 < XavierGr> then implement B4gder!
15:27:29 < B4gder> by allowing the WPS to create a set of "boxes"
15:27:38 < B4gder> each box being line-based like today
15:27:56 < amiconn> Imho line based design is too inflexibe as soon as we allow multiple fonts
15:27:57 < Paul_The_Nerd> But the question is, are you basing on a number of characters for width?
15:28:05 < B4gder> so the current wps would be a box for the whole screen
15:28:16 < amiconn> Ah yes, the box design being what I am considering fro quite some time
15:28:22 < B4gder> each box would be pixel specified
15:28:46 < amiconn> That's quite different from what I have in mind though, and imho more complex
15:28:58 < B4gder> we'd only need to a way to specify "the following data will be within a box with this size/coords"
15:29:13 < webguest71> there was a post about a box system that was backwards compatible with current system
15:29:14 < B4gder> I've tried to come up with a way that would use more or less the current syntax
15:29:19 < webguest71> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=874.0
15:29:28 < amiconn> I'd rather base everything on boxes, defined by pixel coordinates
15:29:53 < B4gder> why not line-based within the boxes?
15:30:15 < Paul_The_Nerd> So, you're basically implementing an overly simplified CSS box model... Or perhaps arbitrary frames. :-P
15:30:16 < amiconn> Then we have lines in boxes, awfully ugly to handle for scrolling
15:30:18 < B4gder> I bet most people will think lines wthin them
15:30:33 < B4gder> amiconn: no, you'd convert those to pixels for the scrolling
15:30:53 < amiconn> Imho a box should always contain one line of text only, possibly scrolling, and using the same font
15:31:03 < amiconn> Different boxes could use different fonts
15:31:15 < B4gder> then you can't do the current wps syntax
15:31:21 < B4gder> which my suggestion would
15:31:41 < amiconn> You want backwards compatibility at the cost of increased complexity?
15:31:43 < B4gder> my would even work with the exact wps files of today
15:31:51 < Paul_The_Nerd> You could always write a new wps handler. .wp2 files, or something
15:31:55 < B4gder> I don't see it as increased complexity
15:32:02 < Paul_The_Nerd> As it is, my computer always wants to open my .wps in OpenOffice.
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15:33:29 < amiconn> The single-line box design would make things rather simple when it comes to things like multiple fonts, font attributes, foreground & background colours/shades, scrolling attribute etc
15:33:50 < B4gder> not really
15:33:52 < amiconn> Each box would have its set of attributes
15:33:59 < B4gder> only if you'd allow different ones within the same box
15:34:12 < amiconn> No, that's the whole point of my suggestion
15:34:28 < B4gder> but then why rule out having more than one line using the same style?
15:34:28 < amiconn> YOu would need to allow that with multi-line boxes
15:35:06 < amiconn> Why would I rule this out?
15:35:16 < B4gder> I don't, you did
15:35:24 < B4gder> you said it would only be one line
15:35:29 < amiconn> No I didn't
15:35:34 < B4gder> ok, then I misunderstood
15:35:40 < B4gder> then our suggestions are basically the same
15:35:40 < amiconn> Yes. You would simply define a second box
15:36:11 < amiconn> In fact we can combine both suggestions with keeping the current wps format
15:36:14 < B4gder> ...and current WPS would simply be a full screen box
15:36:21 < amiconn> No
15:36:27 < B4gder> why not?
15:36:43 < amiconn> ...combined with my idea of coordinate changes not applied until explicitly specified
15:36:51 < amiconn> My idea is now as follows:
15:37:27 < amiconn> Each line in a wps implicitly starts a new box definition (unless it's a special line loading an image or such)
15:38:09 < amiconn> ...but as long as you don't specify coordinates, this box would be x=0, width=lcd_width, y=old_y+font_height, height=font_height
15:38:52 < amiconn> This way, every line of a 'classic' wps would be its own box, without a format change
15:39:11 < amiconn> ...and it's still possible to define boxes by special tags used at the start of the line
15:40:21 < amiconn> ...and in these tags, every coordinate value that's not explicitly specified would preserve its previous value (in a logical way, meaning the y coordinate will be incremented by font_height)
15:40:57 < Bger_cgiirc> amiconn: i see it this way too
15:41:24 < XavierGr> all these sound great, but isn't a pain to implement all that?
15:41:28 < B4gder> well, the result would be the exact same as in my way of seeing it
15:41:46 < B4gder> but I would consider them all to be lines within a single box
15:41:52 < amiconn> ...the same way as my suggestion for partial images is to leave out coordinate values that didn't change from the previous declaration, in order to save space
15:42:15 < amiconn> Unfortunately irc logging is broken :(
15:42:51 < _FireFly_> in my current implementation the leave out of some values and insteed use the last one doesn't work very well
15:42:53 < amiconn> B4gder: Internally there's a big difference, because seeing each line as a separate box will make things easier, imho
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15:43:04 < amiconn> From a user's perspective, they are the same
15:43:05 < _FireFly_> mybe i have make a failure
15:43:12 < B4gder> well I don't see the hard connection between the WPS and the internal representation
15:43:16 < muesli-> re
15:43:30 < B4gder> but it doesn't matter
15:44:56 < amiconn> My suggestion would e.g allow a rather elegant way of declaring a 2-column wps, even when both columns use fonts with different heights
15:45:28 < amiconn> Only 2 boxes would need to be declared explicitly, and not even fully
15:45:40 < B4gder> so would it in my way too ;-)
15:45:52 < B4gder> but again, they're almost the same
15:46:08 < amiconn> The first line of the left column would set the width to lcd_width/2, then all lines for the left colum follow
15:46:27 < amiconn> The first line of the right column would need to set x and y (only)
15:46:29 -!- TiMiD[ZZZzzz] is now known as TiMiD
15:46:34 < TiMiD> hi
15:46:56 < _FireFly_> hi TiMiD
15:46:59 < Paul_The_Nerd> Hello TiMiD
15:47:01 < XavierGr> hi TiMiD! any update on the remote?
15:47:16 < TiMiD> slowly progressing
15:47:31 < TiMiD> I'm documenting undocumented code parts
15:47:32 < XavierGr> what's your status currently?
15:47:46 < muesli-> any progress is progress ;)
15:47:50 < XavierGr> good
15:48:09 < TiMiD> I have the directory browsing working but far from complete
15:48:17 < XavierGr> I mean what can you render on the remote right now?
15:48:22 < TiMiD> since a lot of things are unneeded in the code now
15:48:47 < XavierGr> so you have filetree rendering on the remote?
15:48:56 < TiMiD> yes
15:49:01 < TiMiD> but it's not clean
15:49:23 < TiMiD> I must change lots of things in apps using the tree infos
15:49:41 < TiMiD> because the data structure is a little different
15:49:42 < Paul_The_Nerd> Question: Were you planning on using two separate wps files, or one file with two parts?
15:50:16 < TiMiD> me ?
15:50:22 < amiconn> B4gder: Perhaps I'm just thinking more about the internal representation...
15:50:25 < XavierGr> I think that keeping the same wps (and dropping the lines that don't fit) is good.
15:50:43 < TiMiD> I think 2 wps would be very good :)
15:50:57 < Paul_The_Nerd> Okay
15:51:03  * Paul_The_Nerd prefers two files as well.
15:51:04 < amiconn> TiMiD: Gets my vote
15:51:10 < _FireFly_> a similar thing which i have made??
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15:52:13 < TiMiD> _FireFly_: well when I will be finished with tree, and if what I've done is accepted, maybe you could try to port wps to the remote the way I did it with filetree
15:52:28 < _FireFly_> i could try :)
15:52:33 < TiMiD> since you may be more familiar with the code than me :)
15:53:18 < TiMiD> (and there is a lot of work remaining, too much for me :P)
15:53:54 < TiMiD> tree and wps are the most difficult parts I think
15:54:18 < TiMiD> mainly because code is not very well documented and it takes a lot of time to understant how it works
15:54:47 < B4gder> I'm not sure the wps should/could be done the same way as the tree code
15:56:19 < TiMiD> I don't know since I didn't looked closely at the code
15:57:00 < XavierGr> tree is the most difficult part I think.
15:57:19 < XavierGr> I was lost when I attempted to make a remote patch.
15:57:36 < TiMiD> but the principle is simple : be able to render on any screen independantly and then call the rendering process nb_screens times :)
15:57:46 < TiMiD> XavierGr: same thing here :p
15:57:55 < TiMiD> it's like hell ^^
15:58:14 < XavierGr> but I think that menu.c will be easy to do.
15:58:24 < TiMiD> yes since it's hard_coded
15:58:37 < TiMiD> I wans thinking of something crazy
15:58:43 < TiMiD> for the menus
15:58:48 < TiMiD> since we have dircache
15:58:57 < TiMiD> menus could be just files and dirs
15:58:59 < XavierGr> LinusN: I just sent you a mail with the latest radio.patch. I really hope that you will find some time to inspect it.
15:59:09 < TiMiD> cached
15:59:55 < XavierGr> TiMiD:?
15:59:57 < TiMiD> files would describe options and would be read by a viewer
16:00:17 < TiMiD> (but it's just an idea)
16:00:58 < Paul_The_Nerd> What's the benefit in doing that?
16:01:29 < TiMiD> Paul_The_Nerd: ultra-customizabel menus
16:01:36 < amiconn> TiMiD: That's a really odd idea
16:01:38 < Paul_The_Nerd> How so though?
16:01:53 < Paul_The_Nerd> I mean, even with the files, something still needs to interpret and handle them
16:01:59 < amiconn> ...and I can only find reasons against it
16:01:59 < TiMiD> yes
16:02:02 < Paul_The_Nerd> That means that you can only have options relating to what you've planned for.
16:02:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> Which is the same as having those options static and present.
16:02:49 < amiconn> ...the most important being that the dircache isn't mandatory (luckily), and it's not available on all platforms
16:03:07 < TiMiD> amiconn: ok so it's impossible
16:03:46 < Paul_The_Nerd> amiconn: What are the disadvantages of the dircache itself, do you know?
16:03:50 < TiMiD> (btw, I wasn't planning on that, just an idea to remove most of the menus code
16:04:01 < amiconn> Paul_The_Nerd: Yes, it needs RAM
16:04:16 < TiMiD> but it should be possible if the dircache only caches the menus rep all the time
16:04:18 < XavierGr> <400kb though
16:04:34 < Paul_The_Nerd> Where does it take it from, and how does this impact the average user?
16:04:49 < amiconn> TiMiD: Currently the menu structures are compiled in, and they're const
16:05:01 < XavierGr> well smaller ram means a little bit smaller buffer.
16:05:09 < linuxstb> Paul_The_Nerd: The audio buffer.  So the disk will have to spin up more often during playback.
16:05:13 < XavierGr> so this means that the disk will spin up a little more.
16:05:13 < amiconn> ...meaning that they can be read from ROM on archos when using rombox
16:05:22 < XavierGr> BUT the disk will not spin up when browsing
16:05:26 < amiconn> ...leaving precious RAM free for buffering
16:05:32 < TiMiD> amiconn: I know, I looked before starting working
16:05:43 < XavierGr> and if you browse a lot... well you get the idea.
16:05:53 < TiMiD> I browse a lot :)
16:06:03 < amiconn> XavierGr: I know. It means that it depends on usage pattern
16:06:13 < TiMiD> but I don't think it will improve the battery lifetime
16:06:16 < XavierGr> amiconn: off course
16:06:32 < amiconn> I don't browse a lot, most of the time I just resume after startup (possibly after loading a different .cfg - from the root)
16:06:40 < TiMiD> because when you browse it's to  play a file and the disk still needs to spin up ...
16:07:27 < XavierGr> yes that's true but thats not the case with the radio, or when you are searching for something to play.
16:07:59 < Paul_The_Nerd> So, Dircache is a convenience feature at a slight impact to battery life (most likely)?
16:08:34 < amiconn> Dircache is a convenience feature that might increase or decrease battery runtime, depending on usage
16:08:55 < XavierGr> well said
16:09:05 < preglow> ooh, new patch
16:09:08 < Paul_The_Nerd> But you'd have to do a lot of browsing relative to listening for it to have that sort of impact, no?
16:09:20 < preglow> nice, can't contact my dev box...
16:09:26 < XavierGr> yeah maybe.
16:09:32 < Paul_The_Nerd> Though I imagine it'd be a very marginal difference either way.
16:09:49 < linuxstb> Slasheri (I think) also made the point that some people have a long spindown timeout to help increase browsing speed.  Those users can now reduce the spindown time to almost nothing.
16:09:57 < XavierGr> but even then the battery wasted on the cache I think is very small.
16:10:21 < B4gder> if you use a 1MB cache, that could be a minute of music
16:10:23 < XavierGr> of course. That's what I did when I used the dircache!
16:10:31 < amiconn> Depends on how large the cache is
16:10:41 < amiconn> ...in relation to the main RAM
16:10:46 < XavierGr> but the cache is lower than 400 kb
16:10:51 < amiconn> Thinking about H100 having only 16MB
16:10:58 < XavierGr> yeah on archos it might have major difference.
16:10:58 < TiMiD> people who browse a lot (like me) don't use the full cache (I change music every 1 or 2 songs) :)
16:11:09 < linuxstb> I think the other main argument against it was that it increases code complexity and therefore the chances of bugs.
16:11:13 < amiconn> On archos the full dircache is a no-no
16:11:31 < XavierGr> so dircache is iriver specific?
16:11:39 < amiconn> linuxstb: yes, that too
16:11:41 < B4gder> >8MB model specific
16:11:59 < Paul_The_Nerd> I don't browse much, but I hit next track *alot* at about halfway.
16:12:06 < XavierGr> what were they thinking. 2MB ram?
16:12:15 < Paul_The_Nerd> I probably have the worst possible battery life use pattern.
16:12:21 < amiconn> It _might_ be feasible on archoses with 8MB mod, if you browse like hell
16:12:26 < B4gder> XavierGr: they were the 2nd commercial mp3 player available
16:12:34 < XavierGr> 1st?
16:12:53  * dwihno is also curious
16:13:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> My boss actually got angry with me when I tried to explain to him that the iPod was not the first MP3 player, and in fact nowhere near it. He was so sure of himself.
16:13:43 < amiconn> Paul_The_Nerd: Even when hitting next track, the dircache helps saving a tiny bit of battery, because the directory information is read from the cache instead of the disk
16:13:44 < dwihno> eeeehm.
16:13:52 < XavierGr> dont talk to ipod fan boys.
16:13:59 < B4gder> Hm, zagor wrote a page once about the very first players...
16:14:02 < dwihno> I got a parallell RIO 300 (I think it was) before the new millennium
16:14:11 < dwihno> 32 meg internal storage
16:14:20 < amiconn> Iirc archos players were around back in 2000...
16:14:27 < Paul_The_Nerd> Saehan's MPMan <--- 1998
16:14:38 < dwihno> Paid roughly 1500 SEK for 32 megs of smartmedia ;)
16:14:47 < dwihno> (divide by ~7 for USD)
16:14:50 < Paul_The_Nerd> Apparently released in the US under a different brand, but same product name a few months before the Diamond Rio, commonly considered the first.
16:15:16 < Bger_cgiirc> LinusN: any news on h3x0 ?
16:15:20 < Paul_The_Nerd> XavierGr: I actually just asked him why he picked it over other players.
16:15:30 < Paul_The_Nerd> His response "It's the first, so you know it has to be the best."
16:15:41 < XavierGr> bwahahahah!
16:15:41 < Bger_cgiirc> ("THE question")
16:15:41 < B4gder> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_player
16:15:49 < Paul_The_Nerd> I know
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16:16:01 < Paul_The_Nerd> I *almost* asked him if he still watched Black and White television.
16:16:27 < Bger_cgiirc> hahaha :)
16:16:50 < Bger_cgiirc> this is a HIT
16:17:27 < amiconn> Slasheri: How much does dircaching add to binary size?
16:17:52 < _FireFly_> ah i found the bugin my parsing code for creating parts of combined bitmaps;)
16:17:55 < Zagor> http://www.rockbox.org/playerhistory/
16:18:29 < B4gder> ah, _there_
16:18:45 < _FireFly_> now it works also correct when some values are left off so that the last one will be used
16:19:32 < dwihno> Wee!
16:19:35 < dwihno> Zagor: That was cool!
16:19:51 < _FireFly_> e.g. %xp|i|v|0|0|12|16|0|13|
16:19:51 < _FireFly_> %xp|j|v||16|||||
16:19:58 < _FireFly_> this works now correctly
16:20:26 < Slasheri> amiconn: Hmm, i will measure that when i get to home (soon)
16:21:06 < Slasheri> of course it increases the binary size but only for iriver (so that shouldn't be a problem)
16:21:32 < amiconn> Yes of course. I'm just interested in how much it is
16:21:53 < amiconn> (related to my remark about 8MB-modded archoses)
16:22:03 < Slasheri> ah, yes
16:22:19 < Slasheri> but now i will go, cu later ->
16:22:28 < _FireFly_> amiconn with my remote-patchset+dircache+combined-bitmaps the size of the rockbox.iriver is 265632 bytes
16:22:30 < _FireFly_> cu 
16:23:36 < linuxstb> The last rockbox.iriver I built was 246472 bytes.
16:23:37 < XavierGr> amiconn: what is wrong with binary size, I thought you solved that?
16:24:25 < B4gder> it cannot be solved
16:24:36 < B4gder> its a limit in what files the Archoses load or not
16:24:44 < _FireFly_> each new feature will increase the binary size
16:24:53 < amiconn> We now know that the limit fr fmr, v2 and Ondio is much higher than we thought
16:24:53 < B4gder> really? ;-)
16:25:19 < amiconn> ...so now the most problematic target is the recorder v1
16:25:36 < B4gder> yeps
16:25:52 < XavierGr> yes I know that a new feature will set the binary size to a greater value. I just thought that you found something to by pass it. At least temporary.
16:26:04 < Paul_The_Nerd> I thought there was some talk about having the firmware itself be stripped down, and have it load the rest... or something like that?
16:26:29 < B4gder> uh, right, _that_ is actually the only fix
16:26:40 < XavierGr> so how much binary size is left for the v1 recorder?
16:27:10 < amiconn> Even if we don't hit the limit, or work around it, too large binaries are no good
16:27:28 < amiconn> They eat precious RAM (not all archoses can be flashed)
16:27:54 < XavierGr> 248.500 with the fm preset patch.
16:28:04 < amiconn> XavierGr: Player and recorder v1 allow for 200KByte, fm recorder, recorder v2 and Ondios allow 400KByte
16:28:08 < XavierGr> 2 kb
16:28:41 < XavierGr> does a plugin has to do with the binary size?
16:28:44 < TiMiD> are you using  gcc -Os ?
16:28:48 < Bger_cgiirc> hm, Rio is out of the DAP business
16:29:07 < XavierGr> I use devkit which hasnt the latest gcc
16:29:30 < TiMiD> -Os is available in old gcc :)
16:29:49 < XavierGr> I thought you meant gcc version.
16:30:23 < TiMiD> I don't think it's activated in the makefiles I saw (but there must be a reason for that because when I tried to use -O2 the firware had strange behaviours)
16:30:42 < amiconn> TiMiD: No, we're using plain -O
16:31:01 < amiconn> (and some specific flags, lie -fomit-frame-pointer)
16:31:06 < amiconn> *like
16:31:23 < TiMiD> would it work with -Os ?
16:31:55 < amiconn> With -O2 and -Os gcc goofs on some optimisations, so rockbox crashes on archos
16:32:35 < amiconn> I know a workaround which works with gcc 3.3.x, but gcc 3.4.0 and higher have more problems which I didn't find yet
16:32:58 < XavierGr> so does a plug-in adds binary size?
16:33:07 < amiconn> XavierGr: No
16:33:36 < XavierGr> great. Then it shouldnt matter if my jpeg scrolling patch gets comitted.
16:34:12 < amiconn> (as long as it doesn't require additional core functions to be exported, in which case the plugin api struct size increases a bit)
16:35:29 < amiconn> Plugins have a size limit themselves
16:44:47 < Bger_cgiirc> any idea what does "static u8 ...[] __initdata" mean ?
16:44:58 < Bger_cgiirc> in linux kernel source
16:45:34 < linuxstb> My understanding is that it tells the linker to place it in the __initdata section.
16:46:00 < Bger_cgiirc> what's specific about this section ?
16:46:00 < B4gder> yeps, used by the module loader iirc
16:46:33 < Bger_cgiirc> memset-ed to 0? or?
16:50:24 < B4gder> it is described in Documentation/Docbook/kernel-hacking.tmpl
16:51:07 < Bger_cgiirc> 10x
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17:09:02 < Bger_cgiirc> *that* is quit message
17:09:34 < Paul_The_Nerd> Indeed
17:14:52 < XavierGr> I agree.
17:52:08 -!- muesli- [i=muesli_t@Bc1fd.b.pppool.de] has joined #rockbox
17:53:15 < muesli-> re
17:53:20 < Paul_The_Nerd> Welcome back.
17:53:29 < muesli-> paul ;)
17:53:52 < Paul_The_Nerd> Heh
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18:00:52 < muesli__> re re ;)
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18:14:08 < muesli__> _FireFly_ didnt you like my request to increase rpws's file size :O ?
18:14:42 < TiMiD> I'm more and more in favor of rewriting the whole tree.c . id3db.c, the code is insane :(
18:18:53 < XavierGr> That would be huge work!
18:19:01 < Bagder> double-huge
18:19:11 < XavierGr> when you say insane you mean bad written?
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18:24:13 < TiMiD> at the beginning, it should have been a pretty small code
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18:24:22 < TiMiD> but now it's a 1500+ lines monster
18:24:32 < TiMiD> and lots of programs interract with it
18:25:03 < TiMiD> the way the interractions are handled is not very well done (duplicated code and so on)
18:26:17 < TiMiD> I have the feeling that rewriting it using the lists widgets natively would be a good thing (cleaner code)
18:26:35 < TiMiD> alos, separate file tree code from id3db code
18:28:37 < _FireFly_> muesli__: no i have currently no time to increase it ;) I'm playing with combined bitmaps
18:28:49 < muesli__> ;-(
18:29:00 < TiMiD> ^^
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18:30:03 < muesli__> for those who care.. if your file is bigger than the limit there are mistakes on the screen
18:30:18 < _FireFly_> muesli__: do you use my compiled version ??
18:30:24 < muesli__> yepp
18:33:08 < _FireFly_> so size is to 1200 increased and it builds currently
18:33:16 < TiMiD> well ugly-hacked tree browser seems to work well
18:33:23 < muesli__> cheers mate :D
18:33:26 < TiMiD> time to catch my train !
18:33:36 < TiMiD> cu !
18:33:39 < _FireFly_> cu
18:33:44 < muesli__> bye thegeek_
18:33:47 < muesli__> TiMiD
18:33:48 < muesli__> ;)
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18:34:09 < TiMiD[ParisAgain> roh
18:34:15 < TiMiD[ParisAgain> :)
18:34:26 < muesli__> _FireFly_ http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox.zip this one?
18:35:42 < XavierGr> Does the audio form the radio goes to the MAS?
18:36:36 < _FireFly_> muesli__: yepp now updated
18:36:58 < muesli__> :DDD
18:37:12 < _FireFly_> it has also the latest cvs-changes included
18:37:23 < muesli__> extra- :DDD
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18:38:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> What patches does that have on it?
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18:41:59 < muesli__> hm...just experienced a strange thing... can *.wps and *.rwps share bmps?
18:42:38 < _FireFly_> muesli__: they are complete independend
18:43:16 < _FireFly_> Paul_The_Nerd: this build has the latest cvs-changes + my remote-patchset + dircache_rev2
18:43:19 < muesli__> because when i activate a rwps my main screen changes
18:43:42 < Paul_The_Nerd> Thank you _Firefly_
18:44:50 < _FireFly_> how does it change ??
18:45:52 < muesli__> it affects the main lcd
18:46:04 < muesli__> treats it like the remote
18:46:16 < muesli__> but maybe theres an error in that file..have to check out
18:46:26 < Paul_The_Nerd> Wait, so you can change the remote's WPS now?
18:46:35 < _FireFly_> yepp
18:47:03 < _FireFly_> and have a seperate control over statusbar scrollbar and line-selector
18:47:47 < Paul_The_Nerd> Nice
18:47:52 < Paul_The_Nerd> I mean, I was happy with the remote's WPS
18:48:03 < Paul_The_Nerd> But I was tired of seeing (No ID3) over, and over, and over, and over...
18:48:05 < Paul_The_Nerd> ad infinitum
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18:49:29 < markun> Does anyone know why there is no make on the tools dir during build?
18:49:55 < _FireFly_> you have do it your selfe
18:49:59 < muesli__> _FireFly_ have to check out my rpws..guess it contains still some errors
18:50:54 < _FireFly_> yepp i think it ,too because i have just tested the build 
18:51:02 < _FireFly_> and i had no problems
18:52:17 < muesli__> i'Ve tried to transfer wps into my rwps...still quite buggy cause i have to understand what the code itself does ;)
18:58:33 < Paul_The_Nerd> How do I enable dircache, by the way?
18:59:11 < _FireFly_> it gaves a menu-point for that
18:59:23 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah, but I can't find it in the menus... I must be blind or something.
18:59:49 < _FireFly_> it's the same menu where you set up the spindown-time for the disk
19:00:04 < Paul_The_Nerd> Thank you.
19:00:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> Are all wps tags valid in rwps?
19:00:31 < _FireFly_> yepp it should be
19:00:46 < _FireFly_> these tags, which i use in my rwps are working
19:00:56 < _FireFly_> at least
19:02:37 < Paul_The_Nerd> Alright
19:02:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> Thank you very much
19:03:40 < paugh> ergh.. i enabled resume on start but now i'm stuck on a bad file. is there another way to unstick this other than removing that file via usb?
19:03:58 < paugh> it just locks as soon as i start it (iriver h140)
19:04:08 < XavierGr> Firefly why dont you make some settings for the scrolling of the remote?
19:04:44 < XavierGr> paugh: Start original firmware and then delete that file.
19:04:50 < XavierGr> then start rockbox
19:05:12 < paugh> XavierGr, ah ok. cheers.
19:05:48 < XavierGr> Firefly: It is is to add and it makes the remote much more usable. Currently the scrolling is very slow imho.
19:05:50 < Paul_The_Nerd> I haven't encountered a music file that's frozen me consistently ever.
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19:06:10 < XavierGr> I can send you a dif with the changes I made in settings.c and settings.h which enables scrolling.
19:06:33 < XavierGr> Probably you don't use p2p for music :P
19:06:42 < Paul_The_Nerd> Heh
19:06:45 < XavierGr> (though me too, I have never encountered this)
19:07:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> I primarily use "Insert CD in drive." "Rip CD using dBPoweramp to lossless wavpack" "Enjoy"
19:08:04 < paugh> Paul_The_Nerd, i seem to have stacks of them. mostly oggs. probably encoded with an old version of the encoder.
19:08:26 < Paul_The_Nerd> Aaah
19:08:48 < _FireFly_> XavierGr: send me the diff :)
19:09:01 < XavierGr> okay
19:09:03 < Paul_The_Nerd> I hate downloading music anyway
19:09:07 < XavierGr> wait a sec
19:09:18 < Paul_The_Nerd> I once found an album I really *really* wanted as FLACs and couldn't resist downloading it
19:09:40 < Paul_The_Nerd> Upon listening to it, it was abundantly clear it had been originally encoded in a lossy format at a relatively low bitrate, then transcoded to FLAC.
19:09:50 < _FireFly_> ouch
19:09:55 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
19:10:13 < _FireFly_> there have someone missunderstood something ;)
19:10:15 < paugh> yeah. weird that people do that
19:10:53 < linuxstb> It probably went from CD -> MP3 -> CD -> FLAC.
19:10:56 < Bger_cgiirc> in fact, someone asked here how to convert ogg (or it was mp3) to flac ...
19:11:08 < Paul_The_Nerd> That's actually a pretty likely case linuxstb
19:11:24 < Paul_The_Nerd> That's a little more understandable.
19:11:37 < linuxstb> I know.  It's how a lot of people copy CDs - because it's the default settings in their software.
19:11:43 < XavierGr> hmm I have a very old version of the files. I will try and send you the specific changes.
19:11:45 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
19:12:32 < linuxstb> Does anyone know how good (or bad) the "secure" mode in the Mac version of iTunes is?
19:16:21 < fuzzie> if you mean the 'error correction', it's bad
19:17:11 < XavierGr> Paul_The_Nerd: Why wavpack instead of FLAC?
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19:19:26 < linuxstb> I assume it's because wavpack decodes a lot more efficiently in Rockbox.
19:19:31 < Paul_The_Nerd> At the time FLAC was still not decoding realtime consistently
19:19:37 < Bger_cgiirc> XavierGr: it seems that wavpack is better than FLAC 
19:19:41 < Paul_The_Nerd> I'd get pops and gaps in the music
19:19:41 < Bger_cgiirc> and also makes smaller files
19:20:01 < Bger_cgiirc> (in most cases)
19:21:12 < Paul_The_Nerd> %s%?ia<%ia|%?d2<%d2|%?d1<Rock · box|>>>
19:21:14 < Paul_The_Nerd> %s%?id<%id|%?d1<%d1|xob · kcoR>>%?iy< (%iy)|>
19:21:15 < Paul_The_Nerd> Can anyone explain to me why if I don't have an extra line between these, they display on the same line?
19:22:20 < XavierGr> FireFly: I can't make an exact patch to apply only the remote_scroll changes. But it is easy to understand which changes are for the remote. So you can add them manually.
19:23:41 < webguest76> How would I get a plugin to play a specific mp3
19:23:41 < webguest76> from a directory?
19:25:11 < webguest76> sorry that was meant to say: HI can anyone tell me how I would get a plugin to play a specific mp3 in a specifi directory?
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19:26:59 < linuxstb> webguest76: I don't think you can.  Look in plugin.h for the functions available to plugins.
19:29:35 < XavierGr> Firefly: sorry for the PM you must be registered to answer me.
19:29:40 < XavierGr> http://pastebin.com/381701
19:30:27 < XavierGr> There don't try to patch it as is. Just add manually the '+' statements to your code. The file states which file to change.
19:30:54 < XavierGr> Also some options maybe will be already there by you, so take those that you need.
19:33:52 < _FireFly_> ok
19:34:19 < webguest76> thank
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19:36:54 < XavierGr> If you need help just ask.
19:37:47 < _FireFly_> ok
19:40:29 < Bger_cgiirc> is there any routine for converting big endian to little endian (32bit) and reverse ?
19:41:56 < linuxstb> Bger_cgiirc: No - but there should be.
19:42:26 < Bger_cgiirc> there are SWAB32 macroses..
19:42:29 < linuxstb> There are some functions (SWAB???) in the firmware directory somewhere, but they are not general purpose.
19:42:41 < linuxstb> But look at how they are defined.
19:42:51 < Bger_cgiirc> okay
19:43:21 < linuxstb> IIRC, they convert little-endian to host-endian.  Which isn't the posix definition of SWAB.
19:44:25  * Bger_cgiirc must understand portions of linux/crypto/aes.c
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19:45:44 < Bger_cgiirc> firmware/export/system.h
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19:47:52 < linuxstb> Yes, but they are only defined on big-endian targets.  For little-endian targets, they do nothing.
19:49:49 < linuxstb> But they may suit your needs - if you want to convert from little-endian to host endian.
19:50:05 < linuxstb> (or vice-versa).
19:50:11 < Bger_cgiirc> ok, i must write cpu_to_le32() and le32_to_cpu()
19:50:39 < Bger_cgiirc> which on little endian is just #define xxx(x) (x)
19:51:28 < Bger_cgiirc> and on big endian is what SWAB32() does... or i'm wrong ?
19:53:01 < linuxstb> Yes.  I think SWAB should be defined on all targets, and simply swaps the byte order (using the existing asm-optimised routines).  You can then define your set of byte-swap functions as macros that either use SWAB or do nothing.
19:53:25 < linuxstb> But that would mean changing any existing calls to SWAB in rockbox.
19:53:52 < linuxstb> Which is why I didn't do it when I found hte same problem a while ago - it touches too much code I'm not familiar with.
19:54:05 < Bger_cgiirc> aha :)
19:54:07 < Bger_cgiirc> like fat.c :)
19:54:21 < linuxstb> Yes - I don't want to go there....
19:54:43 < Bger_cgiirc> for sure
19:55:03 < Bger_cgiirc> so, it's ok to #define cpu_to_le32(x) SWAB32(x) ?
19:55:08 < linuxstb> But I will need to soon for the ipod - it's the first little-endian Rockbox target.
19:55:10 < Bger_cgiirc> and reverse
19:55:36 < preglow> hmm
19:55:39 < linuxstb> Yes, that's how I understand those functions.
19:55:43 < preglow> can't you switch endiannes for arm?
19:55:57 < linuxstb> I think it's less efficient running big-endian.
19:56:02 < preglow> ahh
19:56:18 < linuxstb> But yes, there are commands to change the endianness.
19:57:12 < linuxstb> But I'm sure Rockbox is already quite safe in that respect, and I'll be looking out for problems as well.
19:57:18 < preglow> yeah, me too
20:01:26 < Bger_cgiirc> hm, any standard way of getting 32bit int in rb ?
20:02:08 < linuxstb> I know it's old news but I can't believe the "Zen patent": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4198360.stm
20:03:12 < linuxstb> Bger_cgiirc: firmware/includes/inttypes.h
20:03:50 < XavierGr> ipod is little endian?
20:03:56 < linuxstb> XavierGr: Yes.
20:04:10 < XavierGr> I thought that apple tends to make big endian. 
20:04:17 < linuxstb> Not any more.
20:04:39 < linuxstb> Their file formats are big-endian though.
20:04:41 < XavierGr> Is there a reason behind this change?
20:04:52 < XavierGr> and their macs
20:05:03 < linuxstb> I don't think they decided to change - it's just the available processors.
20:05:04 < fuzzie> the macs not for much longer, though
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20:05:31 < Paul_The_Nerd> I can't believe they went x86.
20:05:37 < XavierGr> they changed their CPU company?
20:05:44 < fuzzie> they're moving to Intel
20:05:51 < fuzzie> changing archs
20:05:53 < XavierGr> x86 no way I have missed some episodes?
20:06:00 -!- Maxime [n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net] has joined #rockbox
20:06:09 < XavierGr> Didnt they had motorolla ones?
20:06:21 < linuxstb> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html
20:06:33 < fuzzie> they're currently motorola/ibm powerpc users, yes
20:07:41 < _FireFly_> the problem was/is that motorola/ibm couldn't increase the cpu power to the level apple wants
20:08:00 < _FireFly_> somthing about doubleing the cpu power 
20:08:16 < crwl> that power per watt thing 
20:08:23 < linuxstb> Interesting that Apple are now competing with Microsoft on a level playing field.
20:08:37 < _FireFly_> not really
20:08:39 < fuzzie> the problem is that no-one wants to make powerpc chips for laptops.
20:08:56 < _FireFly_> MACOS will only run on mac
20:09:19 < Paul_The_Nerd> That isn't true
20:09:28 < fuzzie> in theory
20:09:29 < Paul_The_Nerd> MacOS will only *officially* run on Mac hardware
20:09:40 < fuzzie> the recent development builds certainly seem quite solidly locked
20:09:52 < _FireFly_> they want to include a lock into there os and bios so that it can only run on MAC-pcs
20:09:54 < Paul_The_Nerd> I've read quite a few faqs on how to bypass that though.
20:09:59 < fuzzie> no
20:10:05 < fuzzie> you haven't. :)
20:10:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> Oh?
20:10:19 < fuzzie> the original intel/mac builds didn't lock themselves to the TPM in any meaningful way
20:10:25 < fuzzie> the recent ones do
20:10:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> Ah
20:10:32 < Paul_The_Nerd> I'll admit it's been a little while.
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20:10:46 < fuzzie> it might well end up workedaround, but we'll see.
20:10:52 < Paul_The_Nerd> 'eh. I'm quite certain someone will find a way anyway.
20:10:59 < linuxstb> That's not the issue - it's the cost of hardware to Apple that I'm referring to.  They should now be able to build Macs with similar specs and prices as companies like Dell.
20:11:19 < Paul_The_Nerd> I don't think you were ever *really* paying for the hardware.
20:11:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> You were paying for the design.
20:11:30 < fuzzie> yes, their move to x86 seems somewhat suicide in that regard
20:11:41 < fuzzie> they can't sustain 30% profit margins if their specs can be directly compared to Dell
20:12:15 < linuxstb> People will be happy to pay a premium for Macs - is just that they will now be in the same ballpark performance wise.
20:13:48 < XavierGr> Who buys Macs anyway???
20:13:59 < crwl> why not?
20:14:04 < linuxstb> No-one - they're too expensive :)
20:14:09 < fuzzie> I'm typing on an iBook right now. :)
20:14:22 < Paul_The_Nerd> I know many more iBook users than Mac desktop users.
20:14:28 < crwl> imho you can't get better (12") laptop for 1000 EUR than ibook
20:14:37 < crwl> don't know about the more expensive ones, though
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20:15:02 < linuxstb> crwl: I agree.  I'm now on my second iBook.
20:15:21 < fuzzie> i'm on my third iBook, and i've only paid for one
20:15:26 < fuzzie> thanks to Apple's wonderful logic board designs
20:15:33 < XavierGr> well I could understand aplle users but no way that I could understand MAC users.
20:15:51 < XavierGr> apple = ipod
20:16:10 < linuxstb> crwl: Getting off-topic, is there any way I can set my uBook up so I can ALT+TAB between windows in the same application (Firefox, Terminal etc).
20:16:31 < crwl> linuxstb, i don't know, i don't own an ibook
20:16:43 < crwl> i got my gf to buy one though :) i've been wondering about the same thing
20:16:47 < fuzzie> linuxstb: i assume you know cmd-tilde does that?
20:16:57 < crwl> cmd-tilde? i'll go try right away ->
20:16:59 < fuzzie> there's a list, somewhere in the OS
20:17:02 < linuxstb> fuzzie: No.  No-one told me that :)
20:17:13 < Paul_The_Nerd> I keep thinking about getting an iBook
20:17:28 < Paul_The_Nerd> The cheapest one I can find with WiFI.
20:17:32 < linuxstb> The only thing I know is that ALT+3 gives you a # symbol.
20:17:51 < linuxstb> Which is missing on at least the UK keyboard.
20:17:54 < fuzzie> heh, the first thing I did to mine was switch to Dutch layout
20:18:07 < crwl> heh
20:18:21 < linuxstb> The first thing I did with my first iBook was install Debian.  But I've stuck with Mac OS X on the new one so far...
20:18:56 < Paul_The_Nerd> I want to install linux on my current laptop, but as far as I can tell nobody's worked out the wireless on it quite yet.
20:19:06 < XavierGr> if you want to upgrade a mac, what do you do... :p
20:19:15 -!- Lear [n=chatzill@h73n11c1o285.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #rockbox
20:19:17 < linuxstb> Yes, if someone knows the perfect Linux laptop, please tell me.
20:19:25 < crwl> if you want to upgrade a pc laptop, what do you do...
20:19:31 < crwl> linuxstb, i hear some ibm ones are pretty good
20:19:44 < crwl> might be expensive, though.
20:19:44 < Paul_The_Nerd> linuxstb: If they ever get the wireless working, I'd say emachines m6811 is a good shot for it.
20:19:48 < preglow> does the peak meter interpret a max value as a clip?
20:19:49 < fuzzie> XavierGr: you buy a processor upgrade, some RAM, another hard disk, etc? :)
20:20:05 < linuxstb> preglow: Is that a Rockbox question? :)
20:20:24 < Paul_The_Nerd> What, rockbox discussion in #rockbox? How DARE you!
20:20:26 < XavierGr> I think yes.
20:22:04 < XavierGr> I tried to make arrangements for the radio peak meter but no avail, I cant understand where the audio by the radio is sent.
20:22:26 < XavierGr> it is not the pcm buffer for sure.
20:22:44 < _FireFly_> mybe directly to the output
20:22:53 < linuxstb> bbl
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20:23:38 < XavierGr> then how can someone measure the peaks?
20:23:52 < preglow> no, no, it's not in the pcm buffer
20:23:53 < Lear> Radio peak meter would require active recording (though not necessarily writing to disk) of the radio...
20:23:54 < preglow> that's for sure
20:24:04 < XavierGr> God I am so agnorant on this, I don't even know where to start
20:24:11 < preglow> what lear says
20:24:41 < XavierGr> active recording? then this will make the cpu go crazy.
20:25:07 < Lear> Might require more than 11 Mhz, but it shouldn't be that bad, I think...
20:25:19 < XavierGr> there is no chance with 48 or even 11mhz which is currently set.
20:25:30 < preglow> not bad at all
20:25:33 < preglow> of course
20:25:37 < XavierGr> oh little more than 11 you say eh.
20:25:38 < preglow> 48 would be much more than enough
20:25:55 < Lear> The point is, the audio ADC must be active with proper input, and the data written to somewhere the CPU can read the peaks.
20:25:57 < preglow> 11mhz might just be enough
20:26:31 < Lear> We're not talking MP3 encoding or anything here. :)
20:27:49 < XavierGr> hmm thats why there is no s/pdif signal with the radio?
20:28:24 < Lear> Radio is analog...
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20:28:53 < XavierGr> opps my bad
20:29:24 < Bger_cgiirc> nite all ;)
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20:30:30 < XavierGr> so what is going to happen with the logs?
20:30:40 < Paul_The_Nerd> Question: Anyone know of a really good skin/case for an H120 that leaves the line out exposed? (And ideally the remote connection)
20:31:08 < XavierGr> the outro one
20:31:34 < XavierGr> check misticaudio sthe site jeff runs on misticriver
20:31:52 < XavierGr> I am very pleased with it.
20:32:09 < Paul_The_Nerd> I looked at the picture of the outro... something about it doesn't sit right with me.
20:32:36 < Paul_The_Nerd> I'm *thinking* of just puncturing a hole in my original iRiver case.
20:32:37 < XavierGr> Well no problems for me so far and the screen protector is great.
20:32:52 < XavierGr> Thats what I did and screwed my first case.
20:33:12 < XavierGr> I will give you a link for that.
20:34:38 < XavierGr> http://www.misticriver.net/photos/displayimage.php?album=38&pos=6
20:34:51 < XavierGr> check those 2 pictures, its my case mod.
20:35:09 < XavierGr> the first and then the seconds attempt.
20:37:39 < Paul_The_Nerd> Your case looks quite different from mine
20:38:10 < Paul_The_Nerd> Mine, you insert the player from the top, and then close a small strap over it, that snaps on the back.
20:39:16 < XavierGr> mine snaps on the front.
20:39:37 < XavierGr> you have the old case.
20:39:51 < Paul_The_Nerd> Ah
20:40:08 < Paul_The_Nerd> I've had mine for a while.
20:40:26 < Paul_The_Nerd> I was thinking of basically doing what you did in your first mod, the line out only one.
20:42:55 < XavierGr> it didnt't work for me so I moved to the second.
20:44:00 < XavierGr> The hole must be pretty big. In the picture while you think, "ok now I will plug the jack" when you try you will see that the plastic casing of the jack is very fat (especially those that arent made from iriver,
20:44:58 < Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah
20:45:09 < Paul_The_Nerd> I though about that.
20:45:27 < Paul_The_Nerd> I'm wondering if I could just cut a horizontal slit
20:45:35 < Paul_The_Nerd> That crosses both line out and line in.
20:45:40 < Paul_The_Nerd> Don't actually remove any material
20:45:48 < Paul_The_Nerd> Since it's sewn at the ends, the strip shouldn't extend.
20:46:12 < Paul_The_Nerd> And that way I should be able to plug, and when it's *not* plugged, it should still provide some protection from dust and especially larger particles.
20:46:23 < XavierGr> So I took a sharp cutter and cutted a rectangle to show both plugs.
20:46:56 < XavierGr> opps I think cut is cut in the past too...
20:47:33 < XavierGr> well I just extended the remote window to fit both line in/out
20:48:47 < Paul_The_Nerd> Gotcha
20:48:50 < Paul_The_Nerd> But it didn't work well?
20:49:26 < XavierGr> well though the hole was doing its job...
20:49:55 < XavierGr> on my first attempt with the little hole, the drill went away and cut the screen.
20:50:16 < XavierGr> So I had a small tear on my irivers windshield!
20:50:21 < Paul_The_Nerd> :(
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20:51:03 < XavierGr> I had that case for quite a long time then I bought the Outro which I think is very good case.
20:51:08 -!- dpassen1 [n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU] has joined #rockbox
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20:56:15 < Paul_The_Nerd> Somewhere I'd found a case that looked quite nice... they'd even imprint it for you, and the price wasn't too bad... but I think it's bookmarked elsewhere. =/
21:11:40 < XavierGr> What an asshole I am I just submited a patch without first loging in. Now I can modify it.
21:12:36 < Paul_The_Nerd> That sucks.
21:13:11 < Bagder> XavierGr: if you make an update, submit a new patch when logged in and mention what patch it replaces
21:16:41 -!- arkascha [n=arkascha@xdsl-213-196-211-154.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:19:10 < XavierGr> Ok though I think this version is bug free. Please test it yourself and commnet it. I would be pleased to see this comitted.
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21:22:59 < Lear> Should I close #1312132 then?
21:27:56 -!- linuxstb [n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net] has joined #rockbox
21:28:25 < XavierGr> Close it?
21:28:54 < XavierGr> Only if you want to commit it? :P (or you want me to re submit it logged in)
21:29:27 < Lear> Ah, I thought you were about to submit a new, fixed patch. :)
21:29:52 < XavierGr> No it is the latest, until someone discovers a bug.
21:30:05 < XavierGr> Again test please.
21:32:04 -!- solexx_ [n=jrschulz@d051090.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #rockbox
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21:57:22 -!- muesli- [i=muesli_t@Bc121.b.pppool.de] has joined #rockbox
21:57:45 < muesli-> high
21:58:53 -!- LinusN [n=linus@labb.contactor.se] has left #rockbox []
21:58:55 < Lear> low
22:02:36 -!- Maxime [n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:03:11 < XavierGr> Linus left without saying a word all day!
22:03:23 < XavierGr> LOL High-low
22:03:32 < muesli-> ;)
22:03:35 -!- Maxime [n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net] has joined #rockbox
22:04:08 < muesli-> seems linus doenst like us anymore..
22:04:38 -!- Rick [i=rick@unaffiliated/Rick] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:04:52 < XavierGr> I hope not...
22:06:04 -!- Rick [n=rick@pool-71-108-9-40.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #rockbox
22:13:35 < solexx> who cares? let's hope he still likes rockbox! ;)
22:14:17 < XavierGr> :D
22:15:04 < solexx> damn, having to learn b-trees sucks
22:16:21  * solexx promises (again) not to start learning the day before the exam
22:17:58 < fuzzie> yes, indeed, you should be doing it in the early morning of the exam day like a real student
22:18:02 < XavierGr> b-trees?
22:34:41 -!- webguest31 [n=3ed6e45c@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
22:34:53 < webguest31> hello guys
22:35:13 < webguest31> vpn-user here (from forums)
22:36:02 < webguest31> any progress with the bugfixed charging algorithm for v1 recorders?
22:36:40 < solexx> XavierGr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-trees
22:36:48 < solexx> now, who didn't see that coming!?
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23:01:23 -!- ebone_ [i=korjkl@pcp900891pcs.cnorth01.va.comcast.net] has joined #rockbox
23:01:34 < ebone_> hey fellas.
23:01:56 < ebone_> you know the one thing i will miss from the iRiver firmware ?
23:02:07 < ebone_> and i know there is nothing that can be done about it, sadly.
23:02:21 < ebone_> WOW SRS
23:02:32 < ebone_> that shit really does sound good through a car stereo system.
23:02:42 < ebone_> over headphones, i don't use it at all.
23:03:00 < ebone_> but on a stereo system ... WOW really is, err wow !
23:04:20 < preglow> haha
23:04:28 < preglow> like you said, nothing we can do about it
23:04:54 < fuzzie> not a known algorithm?
23:06:01 < preglow> patented as well
23:06:21 < preglow> we can do some processing of our own, though, just need someone to invent something first ;)
23:06:37 < fuzzie> well
23:06:45 < fuzzie> it's not as if the mp3 algorithms aren't patented
23:08:22 < XavierGr> what if someone knows the wow algorithms and say that it is his work.
23:08:46 < XavierGr> Who is going to know if it used wow or something similar.
23:09:04 < solexx> someone reading the source
23:09:31 < XavierGr> and if it isn't open source?
23:09:49 < solexx> and whether it is his own work (from *before* the patent application) has to be proved in court
23:09:56 < solexx> if someone sues him...
23:10:12 < XavierGr> no no you got it wrong.., I mean:
23:10:19 < solexx> if it isn't OS, it cannot be in rockbox...
23:10:38 < preglow> fuzzie: i'm willing to bet the srs people are more aggressive with defending their patents, the mp3 people have more or less said they wont go after decoders anymore
23:10:58 < preglow> anyway, i sure as hell don't know how srs wow works anyway
23:11:07 < fuzzie> i was more thinking the encoding
23:11:25 < XavierGr> someone gets the WOW algorithms, and makes a program of his own. And the calls that algorithm "owo" (example) who can be sure that he stealed the WOW algorithms?
23:11:39 < solexx> a judge
23:11:42 < fuzzie> XavierGr: that doesn't matter in the context of patents
23:11:55 < solexx> true
23:11:59 < fuzzie> if it's patented, even if you invent it independently you're libable.
23:12:02 < fuzzie> liable, even
23:12:10 < fuzzie> but, yes, I have no idea how it works either, just curious :)
23:12:29 -!- linuxstb_ [n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net] has joined #rockbox
23:12:45 < XavierGr> but if noone has checked his code then how SRS can sue him.
23:13:09 < XavierGr> He can claim that he used hiw own algorithm
23:13:55 < solexx> ...and prove it in court, if SRS becomes suspicious
23:14:13 < XavierGr> yeah that what I am talking.
23:14:19 < XavierGr> ^that's
23:14:44 < solexx> ok, but he will only win if it is really not covered by the patent
23:14:52 < XavierGr> But I guess that SRS algorithms aren't easy to fond...
23:15:09 < solexx> (and even if he wins, he will have to pay a lot before that decision)
23:15:30 < XavierGr> What you mean covered byt the patent?
23:15:49 < fuzzie> the SRS stuff is patented.
23:16:00 < solexx> a patent doesn't cover an exact algorithm, but an abstract idea to handle a problem
23:16:14 < solexx> as far as i understand
23:16:34 < solexx> at least, the "new kind" of patents ("software patents")
23:16:43 < XavierGr> so noone can make a program that alters the sound.
23:16:44 < XavierGr> ?
23:16:53 < solexx> think of the amazon "one click" patent
23:17:04 < XavierGr> Because there have been many different algorithms for it. EAX as an example
23:17:19 < XavierGr> I bet they do not pay SRS a penny
23:17:27 < fuzzie> right, so if you really really were to use your own algorithm then it'd be fine
23:17:32 < solexx> it all depends on the patent application
23:17:41 < fuzzie> but it'd have to be different enough that it wasn't covered by the patent
23:18:21 < XavierGr> I make the program and hide the code. We are talking about sounds which can be sure if I used the same algorithm?
23:18:46 -!- tucoz [n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
23:18:50 < XavierGr> EAX made her own algorithm so did  SRS so can an "x" company or user.
23:19:11 < XavierGr> the result is not the same,
23:19:17 < XavierGr> but who can be sure?
23:19:18 < tucoz> hi, sorry for bumping into the discussion. Would OpenAL be possible to use?
23:20:00 < solexx> XavierGr: a lawyer. ;-)
23:20:24 < tucoz> Not that I would want it, but if someone wants 3dsound, that might be an option.
23:20:42 < XavierGr> Even then the court would have to innocent the guy.
23:20:57 < XavierGr> ^claim innocnet
23:21:02 < fuzzie> tucoz: OpenAL doesn't do anything which would be useful..
23:21:13 < tucoz> fuzzie: ok
23:21:35 < fuzzie> XavierGr: if it weren't open source and weren't easily reverse-engineerable, you might get away with it, yes
23:21:42 < XavierGr> And as far as I know software patetns aren't comply with the European laws.
23:21:55 < fuzzie> that doesn't stop EU countries from happily issuing them, though
23:22:41 < fuzzie> and it'd mean no-one from the US could be involved with the code
23:25:17 < XavierGr> Well just an "if" question on a non open source program.
23:25:48 < solexx> damn, i even cannot find the patent nr.
23:26:14 < preglow> i don't think the srs stuff is too complex
23:26:25 < preglow> but still enough to not be apparent from just listening at the sound
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23:27:15 < XavierGr> As for the mp3 encoding. We could program a patented encoder but don't commit it to cvs. Host it on another site and the claim from the Rockbox site that this is not supported by the main developers, though this is unethic. 
23:29:13 < tucoz> I would suggest using a crappy mp3 encoder for not-that-important recordings, like lectures and stuff. And have a lossless encoder for hq recordings
23:29:31 < tucoz> hmm, that is what we have right now, isn't it?
23:30:01 < tucoz> or speex
23:30:14 -!- amiconn [n=jens@p54BD6B56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rockbox
23:30:21 < XavierGr> hi amiconn
23:32:40 -!- TiMiD[ParisAgain is now known as TiMiD
23:32:44 < TiMiD> re
23:32:59 < TiMiD> I have a strange compilation problem
23:33:12 < TiMiD> tree.c:317: error: structure has no member named `dirstart'
23:33:14 < TiMiD>     //int start = tc.dirstart;
23:33:22 < TiMiD> this is line 317 ...
23:34:43 < BirdFish> Does anyone have any news on the iaudio X5 port?
23:34:55 < Bagder> there is no news
23:35:03 < TiMiD> oops sorry to bother you, seems that I wasn't compiling the right code ^^
23:35:18 < Bagder> BirdFish: that port is stalling since a few months
23:35:39 < Bagder> hopefully it'll get back up to speed again
23:36:16 < BirdFish> Bagder: I figured that is what you meant. But some posts dissappeared on Iaudiophile's forum and I wanted to check so that I could respost and make others aware of the current situation again.
23:36:54  * amiconn spotted a problem in a forum post that sounds familiar
23:37:21 < amiconn> Screen updates for the H1x0 remote seem to disturb radio reception - seems we need screen freeze
23:37:29 -!- arkascha [n=arkascha@xdsl-195-14-222-50.netcologne.de] has joined #rockbox
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23:39:26 < tucoz> amiconn: hehe, I had completely forgotten about that one. Hmm, maybe that was something else. some low beep when using the remote in general.
23:40:36 < amiconn> I'm still pondering the implementation of a special low-emi lcd driver mode for fm
23:40:50  * tucoz is completely rockboxed by now and never uses the remote
23:41:08 < amiconn> (thinking archos here, but it may also helpful for iriver remote)
23:42:29 < tucoz> amiconn: I do not remember if I have asked you this before, but.. Do some shades of gray flicker on your iriver?
23:42:51 < amiconn> Do you mean the native shades, or the grayscale lib?
23:42:59 < tucoz> grayscale lib
23:43:11 < amiconn> That's normal, due to how the grayscale lib works
23:43:59 < tucoz> It doesn't matter. Mandelbrot is cool no matter what. Especially on a dap that do not support that amount of shades anyway :)
23:44:24 < amiconn> Yes, mandelbrot uses 9 shades (both on H1x0 and archos)
23:44:52 < Lear> amiconn: just curios regarding the timer changes... fading uses "shorter" timer periods then?
23:44:59 < amiconn> Yes
23:45:29 < tucoz> hehe, I really like that. Off topic: have I dreamt this, or did some c64'ers use the cpu in the floppy drive for extra computation power?
23:45:31 < amiconn> My timer changes avoid the timer restart at frequency changes, but of course the period isn't 100% stable
23:46:03 < amiconn> ...when the frequency changes, and an interrupt is delayed during pll relock
23:46:17 < amiconn> ...which may take up to 10 ms, typically 3 ms
23:46:52 < amiconn> Everything that uses a timer period of 10ms or greater and can stand an occasional glitch will work without locking the frequency by boosting,
23:47:23 < amiconn> but backlight fading uses timer periods in the microseconds range
23:48:04 < amiconn> (50 µs...5 ms)
23:49:13 < tucoz> seems like I didn't dream "Old Commodore 64 floppy drives had a CPU and some RAM in them that you could actually upload and execute code with"
23:49:44 < Bagder> tucoz: right, that's how they work
23:50:10 < Bagder> iirc, there was a 6502 in the floppy drive too
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23:50:54 < tucoz> Bagder: same as for the 64?
23:50:58 < Bagder> yes
23:51:52 < tucoz> hehe, those were the days. It is really amazing to think of what people could do with their 64s.
23:52:17 < Bagder> http://kjell.haxx.se/horizon/
23:52:24 < Bagder> our stuff ;-)
23:52:25 < tucoz> have read that :)
23:52:41 < tucoz> I have to power up my old one soon
23:52:49 < Lear> Hrm... Loaded a config file that changed bass and treble only. Playback stopped... :/
23:53:53 < XavierGr> amiconn: remote updates interefer with the remote? But thats not the issue with the iriver firmware.
23:54:18  * XavierGr gets to test the FM radio with the remote and default firmware.
23:54:30 < tucoz> just for the record. I came to think of that when I thought of amiconns work on the grayscale lib. Doing stuff that isn't "possible"
23:54:48  * amiconn would need to find out how to enter fm with the stock firmware first :/
23:54:55 < Bagder> haha
23:55:09 < Bagder> I also feel that lost when I used it
23:55:16 < Bagder> I once managed to activate it by mistkae
23:55:25 < Bagder> and couldn't figure out how to get out of it ;-)
23:55:41 < XavierGr> Well I think that it is not that difficult to operate. I am used to it.
23:55:42 < amiconn> Haha, I also managed to enter it once, but didn't find out how to tune
23:55:50 < tucoz> amiconn: hold play
23:55:56 < tucoz> ..for a while
23:56:13 < tucoz> and hold play to exit
23:56:17 < tucoz> iirc
23:57:21 < amiconn> tucoz: Nah, it's not really impossible. The crucial point was the idea how to display shades of grey on a b&w display, and that idea wasn't even mine
23:57:21 < tucoz> bye
23:57:59 < amiconn> The rest was testing, thinking, retesting, optimising, and lots of implementation work
23:58:11 < amiconn> (involving assembler for speed)
23:58:23 < tucoz> amiconn: I still think that it is cool
23:59:48 < XavierGr> Hmm actually they are right, there is somekind of mistuning when I change the volume. (and the lcd updates)
--- Day changed Tue Oct 04 2005
00:00:15 < tucoz> I mean it is possible, obviously. But, the idea might seem impossible.
00:00:40 < amiconn> I'd rather expect that for the remote, considered how close the data lines are to the headphone lines which are used as the antenna
00:01:30 -!- ep0ch [n=ep0ch@84.12.193.149] has joined #rockbox
00:01:31 < tucoz> if one is thinking of hw limitations i.e.
00:01:35 < amiconn> tucoz: I agree that it is a cool idea...
00:01:39 -!- Lear [n=chatzill@h73n11c1o285.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4.1/undefined]"]
00:01:47 < XavierGr> But why we need the freeze screen this appears only when the lcd changes.
00:01:52 < amiconn> The idea is borrowed from the video plugin, which is [IDC]Dragon's work
00:02:15 < amiconn> XavierGr: Rockbox does update the lcd periodically
00:02:20 < tucoz> oh, ok.
00:02:34 < tucoz> that does also sound like fun.
00:02:54 < tucoz> got to go. Bye
00:02:57 < XavierGr> Lucky those that have the batch without the ticking issue.
00:02:57 -!- tucoz [n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se] has left #rockbox []
00:03:00 < ep0ch> XavierGr: i;ve just applied your radio patch
00:03:09 < ep0ch> it didn't break anything :)
00:03:12 < XavierGr> and :)
00:03:12 < amiconn> Of course I had to 'invent' some techniques, like the pseudo-random pattern shifting that minimises flicker
00:03:44 < webguest31> how is bugfixing going for the charging algorythm of the recorder v1?
00:03:45 < ep0ch> it doesnt pick up the existing default fm preset file if you go via the settings menu?
00:03:46 < amiconn> Without it, the grayscale lib would flicker like hell, esp. on archos
00:04:50 < XavierGr> ep0ch: What exactly do you mean?
00:05:08 < XavierGr> It will remember presets in .rockbox/presets/ directory.
00:05:30 < webguest31> amiconn: You were about to send me a test-binary for the charging algo, nor?
00:05:42 < amiconn> Argl
00:05:51  * amiconn completely forgot that
00:05:54 < ep0ch> the old radio had a file called .rockbox/fm-presets-default.fmr
00:05:58 < webguest31> I see :)
00:06:15 < ep0ch> i need to move this to .rockbox/presets then...
00:06:32 < XavierGr> this will load the presets and pop the radio, but it will not remember it after a shutdown. 
00:06:55 < XavierGr> But if you had presets that you want you save it to default directory presets.
00:06:56 < amiconn> webguest31: Perhaps I should do some tests myself. I don't know whether the logging code in current powermgmt.c will tell us much
00:07:16 < webguest31> amiconn: You have a recorder v1?
00:07:25 < XavierGr> Just push A-B button and then save to the prompted directory with a filename under 20 characters 
00:07:46 < amiconn> webguest31: Yes, that's one of my rockboxes
00:07:57 < ep0ch> i've loaded the default fmr file up and saved it in the radio. that works.
00:08:05 < webguest31> amiconn: And your box works correctly?
00:08:14 < linuxstb_> Anyone familiar with ARM assembler, linker scripts, map files, crt0.S etc ?
00:08:50 < amiconn> webguest31: Not really... I don't have as big problems as you, but I do get much less runtime from my 2500mAh cells than I would expect
00:09:08 < amiconn> I get 6..8 hours, I'd rather expect twice as much
00:09:10 < Bagder> linuxstb_: somewhat, yes, yes, somewhat, but I'm heading to bed in minutes
00:09:16 < webguest31> amiconn: Ok so what will we do?
00:09:39 < ep0ch> XavierGr: but i think the radio should look at .rockbox/fm-presets-default it .rockbox/presets does not exist or contain any .fmr files
00:09:46 < ep0ch> s/it/if
00:09:57 < webguest31> amiconn: I only have very little C knowledge and more little jukebox knowledge :)
00:10:15 < Bagder> linuxstb_: fire off a mail to the list
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00:10:45 < XavierGr> ep0ch once this is commited and people know about it it will not have any use to search in .rockbox directory.
00:11:10 < linuxstb_> The problem is that my ipod bootloader is not running reliably.  I think the problem is that the code gets loaded to one address, and then my relocation of the code (and data) to a different address isn't working properly.
00:11:30 < Bagder> aha
00:11:33 < ep0ch> XavierGr: thats true
00:11:36 < linuxstb_> But I'll keep thinking about it tonight, and try and diagnose what's going on.
00:11:40 < amiconn> webguest31: These problems definitely need to be fixed, however, there's always little time
00:11:43 < XavierGr> bootlaoder? You amde a rockbox bootlaoder that quick? Are you joking?
00:11:48 < Bagder> btw, there's a .ss-generating site coming up soonish
00:12:22 < webguest31> miconn: I understand. no stress, I can still rolo the archos firmware
00:12:52 < linuxstb_> XavierGr: It's in progress, it's not working.  I've got the framework working, but there's problems.  I then need to write the ATA driver before the bootloader can actually load anything...
00:12:54 < ep0ch> XavierGr: one last thing, while you're working on the radio, can you make the buttons consistent with the rest of rockbox, as there is not way to get to the rockbox settings menu in radio mode :(
00:13:06 < Bagder> linuxstb_: sure, just mail away when you think we/I can offer a hand in the debug job
00:13:32 < Bagder> now: bedtime
00:13:36 < amiconn> webguest31: As soon as I have some testing code, I'll post about it on the ml. I think I'll need logs taken with various boxes, various cells etc to tune the algorithm
00:13:40 < ep0ch> XavierGr: but me likes preset mode
00:13:44 < ep0ch> :)
00:14:15 < amiconn> My idea is to measure voltage with and without charging current. Perhaps that will give us some more hints about the real status of the cells
00:14:24 < webguest31> miconn: Ok - I see I have to subscribe to the list :)
00:14:35 < linuxstb_> Bagder.  Thanks.
00:14:38 < XavierGr> ep0ch: Didn't cought that. How can you get to rockbox settings when you are inside the radio? When you set the radio on (either by selecting an fmr file or choose FM radio) A-B button will open the FM menu.
00:14:54 < webguest31> Damn - my "a" needs more power to get
00:15:29 < amiconn> webguest31: You save me a 'pling' and a red line everytime ;)
00:15:55 < TiMiD> who thinks a complete rewrite from swratch of the file browser would be a good thing ?
00:16:03 < webguest31> h3h3
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00:16:46 < ep0ch> XavierGr: oh just realised that pressing the joystick now takes you to rockbox settings. But this isn't consistent. Can you swap the A-B button with joystick press?
00:16:56 < webguest31> BTW: I got 17 hours of playtime with my brand new 2600mAh batteries!
00:17:09 < webguest31> I think thats massive
00:17:24 < amiconn> XavierGr: Allowing to call the main menu from the radio screen isn't a good idea imho
00:17:35 < XavierGr> ep0ch:I never touched the button hnadling this is the attitude by default.
00:17:40 < ep0ch> amiconn: why not?
00:17:47 < XavierGr> yeah why?
00:17:51 < amiconn> It allows cycles like menu->radio->menu->radio...
00:17:57 < ep0ch> heh
00:17:58 < XavierGr> no it dont
00:18:05 < XavierGr> I coded that way that will not.
00:18:25 < XavierGr> I check the fm status before everything.
00:18:27 < amiconn> It will eat up all menu slots, or overflow the stack, whatever comes first
00:18:41 < ep0ch> well something has changed in the radio, before you couldn't go to the settings menu at all. now you can with joystick button
00:18:56 < amiconn> XavierGr: So, how do I enter the radio screen when the radio is already playing
00:18:57 < amiconn> ?
00:19:05 < ep0ch> if i'm not mistaken
00:19:06 < amiconn> (after leaving it with the radio on)
00:19:11 < XavierGr> choosing radio again by the menu
00:19:31 < XavierGr> then it will check if the radio is already on and it will only draw the screen.
00:19:54 < XavierGr> that's the same as before though I just check it with an if.
00:19:57 < amiconn> Yes, but that doesn't prevent the cycle I was talking about
00:20:54 < XavierGr> I cant really got what you are saying. Can you be more specific and which is the change before after my patch?
00:21:11 < XavierGr> ^-before
00:21:33 < amiconn> Before the patch you couldn't enter the menu from the radio screen
00:21:47 < amiconn> ...for a reason, because the radio screen is entered from the menu
00:22:09 < XavierGr> so before my patch you couldnt load a new setting?
00:22:21 < XavierGr> or change the settings for the display?
00:22:30 < amiconn> Yes, by leaving the radio screen
00:22:36 < ep0ch> you would have to have to filetree mode
00:22:47 < ep0ch> s/to/go to
00:22:48 < amiconn> Hmm, perhaps I didn't understand what you mean
00:23:14 < XavierGr> please try the patch and see for youself that there is no point of confusion.
00:23:24 < XavierGr> I think that it is well implemented that way.
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00:23:34 < amiconn> ..but then I was irritated by ep0ch saying that you couldn't use the menu before.
00:24:00 < ep0ch> well you couldn't
00:24:06 < XavierGr> I think that I could use it even without my patch.
00:24:08 < amiconn> In fact that has always been possible
00:24:13 < XavierGr> yes
00:24:31 < amiconn> ...by leaving the radio screen with Play instead of Stop (on iriver)
00:24:34 < XavierGr> why not go to the settings. How could one get to the FM again?
00:24:56 < XavierGr> that's right. So there is no difference right?
00:24:59 < amiconn> XavierGr: No, that was a misunderstanding.
00:25:26 < XavierGr> Thank god! I had been doing a lot of work into this.
00:25:33 < amiconn> I thought you mean entering the menu by actually calling it (again), but you mean by leaving the radio screen
00:25:54 < XavierGr> ep0ch: Keep testing. and tell me if you like the cahnges.
00:25:55 < amiconn> ...like it has always been possible. Just the buttons have changed
00:25:58 < XavierGr> ^changes
00:26:42 < amiconn> I think this function could be put on AB (consistent with other screens) and the fm menu put on long Select (as the 'context menu' of the radio screen)
00:26:58 < XavierGr> amiconn: I didn't changed any buttons. The button handling is the smae.
00:26:59 < ep0ch> well i'm convinced before you could not go directly from radio screen to rockbox settings before. but now you can go from radio screen to rockbox settings by pressing the joystick button
00:27:07 < ep0ch> and i just wanted this swapping with A-B :)
00:27:45 < ep0ch> pleae
00:27:46 < ep0ch> please
00:27:48 < amiconn> ep0ch: You could do so before, definitely
00:27:53 < ep0ch> hmm
00:27:59 < XavierGr> as amiconn said.
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00:28:16 < XavierGr> Because I will say this again. I didn't change the button handling at all.
00:28:27 < amiconn> Ah, it even was select
00:28:41 < XavierGr> ep0ch; we can change the button handling if the devs want to.
00:28:42 < amiconn> Seems I'm a little confused...
00:29:07 < ep0ch> me too now :)
00:29:29 < XavierGr> I will test a build without my patch why dont you test a build with my patch?
00:29:50 < amiconn> Play was the fm menu, and A-B was the context menu, allowing to add presets etc
00:29:50 < ep0ch> Rockbox just switched off by itself when in radio...
00:30:37 < XavierGr> do you have autoturn down on?
00:31:11 < XavierGr> amiconn: play (in the side) will render the preset list.
00:31:17 < ep0ch> let me wait a few minutes and see...
00:31:23 < XavierGr> A-B will get the fm radio menu.
00:31:39 < XavierGr> and select will exit the radio but keep playing.
00:31:48 < XavierGr> that was the button handling before and after my patch.
00:31:51 < ep0ch> XavierGr: there was a thread somewhere about making the buttons consistant in fm mode
00:32:53 < XavierGr> Yes just tested it is how I say.
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00:33:25 < XavierGr> Even in the old builds Select (joystick click) will bring up the main menu of rockbox.
00:33:30 < linuxstb_> A joystick press takes you from the FM screen back to the main menu, leaving the radio on.  This is consistent with a joystick press from the WPS, which takes you back to the browser.
00:34:18 < ep0ch> jhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1512.0
00:34:23 < amiconn> linuxstb_: It's consistent and inconsistent at the same time, depending on the view
00:34:58 < linuxstb_> If you understand that Rockbox goes browser -> menu -> FM and browser -> WPS, then it makes sense.
00:35:07 < amiconn> Seeing the presets list as the fm mode's browser, it's inconsistent
00:35:25 < ep0ch> A/B = go to main menu (currently A/B goes to radio context menu) 
00:35:25 < ep0ch> STOP = quit radio (this is the only one that's correct) 
00:35:25 < ep0ch> Push in joystick = select from presets (this currently goes to the main menu) 
00:35:25 < ep0ch> Push+hold joystick = context menu (currently does nothing) 
00:35:25 < ep0ch> Play = toggle mute/unmute (currently selects from radio presets)
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00:36:27 < amiconn> Hmm, I just had an idea...
00:36:31 < lImbus> hi all
00:37:04 < amiconn> What's currently missing on iriver and Ondio is a way to delete presets, due to how the initial radio implementation works (on archos fm recorder)
00:37:23 < amiconn> If the presets list would have a context menu...
00:37:25 < XavierGr> I add tha to my patch.
00:37:44 < amiconn> ...but the whole radio menu stuff needs some rewriting
00:38:12 < XavierGr> what you mean exactly?
00:38:26 < amiconn> rasher tried to implement the button assignment from that post. It didn't work, compilation failed due to duplicate case: values...
00:38:33 < XavierGr> delete filepresets or preset entries ( I suppose the 2nd)
00:38:42 < amiconn> 2nd
00:39:13 < XavierGr> I made an option clear preset list.
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00:40:01 < XavierGr> and currently the preset list has already a context menu
00:40:07 < XavierGr> Edit preset and delete preset.
00:41:16 < ep0ch> hmm I have no idea why rockbox switch off by itself....
00:41:31 < ep0ch> the battery is low, but not too low
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00:42:05 < XavierGr> you were on the radio screen or outside of it?
00:42:10 < ep0ch> in radio
00:42:13 < ep0ch> but
00:42:18 < XavierGr> strange.
00:42:27 < XavierGr> I had this one too but I was outside.
00:42:31 < ep0ch> i;m in radio now, haven;t touched anything, and it's fine for the last 10 minutes
00:42:42 < ep0ch> was your battery lowish?
00:42:52 < XavierGr> I think yes.
00:42:58 < XavierGr> But I am not sure.
00:43:09 < ep0ch> maybe a dodgy battery reading shutting rockbox down?
00:43:30 < ep0ch> i assume rockbox shuts down on low battery?
00:43:34 < XavierGr> Fiddle with it a little. Load save, add exit (without stopping) reenter and then let it for another 10 minutes.
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00:45:49 < ep0ch> XavierGr: if there's room maybe it would look better (to me) if there was a space between preset number and station name.
00:47:55 < XavierGr> Ok I can add that. what others think?
00:48:25 < ep0ch> FM radio is not running the CPU @11 Mhz ?
00:48:40 < XavierGr> you mean like "1. Station name" instead of "1.Station name" ?
00:48:45 < XavierGr> it is.
00:49:07 < ep0ch> XavierGr: yes, but i'm not THAT bothered about the space really :)
00:49:50 < ep0ch> well, i've gone to the debug screen while the radio is on the the cpu frequency is at 45 mhz
00:50:00 < XavierGr> Did you played with the preset mode? Did you load the FM from a preset file?
00:50:22 < XavierGr> yes becuase you need normal cpu power outside of the radio.
00:50:41 < linuxstb_> I'm listening to the radio ATM (unpatched rockbox from a few days ago), and it turned itself off a few minutes ago.  The battery is fully charged.
00:50:46 < XavierGr> Can you test the low frequency mistuning?
00:50:52 < ep0ch> you do? oh... i always found menus fine at 11mhz
00:51:05 < ep0ch> low frequency? how low?#
00:51:18 < XavierGr> well do this: 
00:51:32 < XavierGr> Enter the menu and tune the radio between 2 stations.
00:51:49 < XavierGr> Then press click and then renter the radio screen.
00:52:07 < XavierGr> Listen carefully to the signal do you hear any changes?
00:52:18 < XavierGr> Reapeat that and tell me if you can hear that.
00:52:24 < ep0ch> ok
00:52:43 < XavierGr> also this can be done from the debug menu.
00:53:06 < ep0ch> yeah
00:53:23 < ep0ch> i've heard the same when listening to other audio files
00:53:29 < ep0ch> like a low pass filter effect
00:53:46 < ep0ch> thats probably at around 30 khz
00:54:01 < Maxime> 30khz? you wouldn't hear it..
00:54:12 < ep0ch> oh i mean 15 then :p
00:54:29 < Maxime> human ears are from 20Hz to 20Khz :x
00:54:44 < Maxime> (for a very good ear)
00:54:48 < ep0ch> yeah i know, i'm used to sampling rates
00:55:27 < Maxime> i've found a website with multiple samples like 15Khz, 16khz..
00:55:36 < Maxime> to compare this may be useful no?
00:55:36 < Maxime> :x
00:56:06 < ep0ch> XavierGr: would you say it sounds like a low pass filter effect what you hear?
00:56:22 < ep0ch> high frequencies just dont seem to be there
00:56:40 < XavierGr> something like that.
00:56:54 < XavierGr> and on a well tuned station I can hear a faint pop.
00:56:55 < ep0ch> try it with an mp3 or vorbis
00:57:09 < ep0ch> oh i think we;re hearing different things
00:57:20 < XavierGr> try what?
00:57:28 < XavierGr> change the frequency while playing?
00:57:33 < ep0ch> play on mp3 of vorbis then change the frequency to 11
00:57:37 < XavierGr> but this may crash the player or the playback.
00:57:58 < ep0ch> well don't do it for too long
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00:58:08 < ep0ch> or the buffer will empty
00:58:40 < ep0ch> but i can definitly hear a change in the frequencies
00:58:46 < XavierGr> amazing you are right I can clearly hear a pop.
00:58:54 < XavierGr> ehmm
00:59:00 < XavierGr> I hear a pop when doing this.
00:59:00 < ep0ch> wow i dont get a pop! :)
00:59:06 < ep0ch> just a dulled sound
00:59:14 < ep0ch> wierd
00:59:33 < XavierGr> well I didn't checked for long to hear the dull sound but I can clearly hear the pop.
00:59:37 < ep0ch> what player have you got?
00:59:49 < XavierGr> iHP-160
00:59:56 < XavierGr> and 1900mah battery.
01:00:03 < ep0ch> heh a modded iHP-140?
01:00:21 < ep0ch> i have the 120
01:00:46 < XavierGr> strange others must test this.
01:00:54 < XavierGr> or maybe I have a poping unit.
01:01:10 < XavierGr> Do you get a pop effect once in a while when you change songs?
01:01:17 < ep0ch> its the 140 you have though? 160 wasnt made?
01:01:37 < XavierGr> yeah but I changed the disk to 60gb so.... :D
01:01:56 < ep0ch> yeah so we have different models which may make the difference
01:02:05 < ep0ch> i dont get pops
01:02:09 < XavierGr> but the only change is the disk.
01:02:28 < XavierGr> I get a faint pop during the transition between the songs.
01:02:30 < XavierGr> Sometimes.
01:02:49 < XavierGr> Do you hear a pop when you start your player?
01:02:57 < XavierGr> a faint one.
01:02:59 < ep0ch> let me see...
01:03:01 < XavierGr> but audible.
01:03:23 < ep0ch> yes and on shutdown
01:03:30 < XavierGr> phewww.
01:03:36 < ep0ch> is that the pop you hear at 11 mhz?
01:03:44 < XavierGr> yes.
01:03:49 < XavierGr> now final question.
01:04:07 < XavierGr> This is why I think my unit is faulty and popy.
01:05:07 < XavierGr> Play an mp3 and then change the volume, up and down 1 unit at a time or many units. Make sure the track is a little silent. And listen carefully.
01:05:24 < XavierGr> Do you hear a very faint pop when you change the volume?
01:05:30 < ep0ch> i used to
01:05:52 < ep0ch> let me rephrase that
01:06:21 < ep0ch> i used to hear pops when changing the volume when the music is paused
01:06:59 < ep0ch> nah i can't hear the pops at low volume
01:07:07 < XavierGr> you used to? know you cant?
01:07:17 < XavierGr> even in pause
01:07:21 < ep0ch> yeah maybe a rockbox thing
01:07:34 < ep0ch> like 3 - 4 months ago
01:07:52 < ep0ch> all i can hear at low volume is the ihp hiss
01:08:18 < XavierGr> Unfortunately this is why I have a faulty unit.
01:08:33 < XavierGr> I can hear that little pops even on the iriver firmware.
01:08:47 < ep0ch> ah
01:08:57 < XavierGr> And I cant tell whats causing it.
01:13:16 < XavierGr> So how do you find my patch in overall?
01:13:25 < ep0ch> i love the preset mode :)
01:13:47 < ep0ch> i dont think i'll use the other features though
01:14:16 < ep0ch> but radio sounds better in the menu than in radio screen (not your doing i know)
01:14:36 < ep0ch> i hear more hiss in radio screen than in the menu
01:14:49 < XavierGr> yeah I know...
01:15:26 < XavierGr> well the devs might decide to remove it though less battery time will be the effect.
01:16:06 < ep0ch> or find out why it's worse at 11 mhz and look into that
01:16:42 < ep0ch> well i'm gonna catch some zzzZZZs
01:16:47 < ep0ch> thanks for the patch :)
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01:23:21 < XavierGr> why the patch tracker doenst show my patch? Though I can see it in sourceforge
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01:34:43 < preglow> it's updated daily
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01:53:55 < TiMiD> yaaa tree.c 49Ko => 37Ko ^^
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01:54:11 < XavierGr> hi TiMiD
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01:54:29 < XavierGr> what you managed to make?
01:54:56 < TiMiD> I dropped all the now-unneeded code
01:55:23 < TiMiD> (the code that handled the list display in tree.c)
01:55:41 < TiMiD> (though, there is remainings ...)
01:55:57 < TiMiD> because it's almost impossible to figure out how it works
01:56:02 < XavierGr> without changing the default actions of tree.c?
01:56:10 < TiMiD> don't know
01:56:16 < TiMiD> it needs more testing
01:56:44 < XavierGr> I admire you. I tried that before you but I just couldnt follow the code.
01:56:52 < TiMiD> me2 :D
01:56:59 < XavierGr> where is your work?
01:57:06 < TiMiD> I still don't understand very well how it works
01:57:07 < XavierGr> do you host it somewhere?
01:57:26 < TiMiD> andthe parts I understand ughhhh I would never have coded this like that ^^
01:57:34 < TiMiD> Ôh
01:57:49 < TiMiD> it's on the net but not up to date
01:57:52 < TiMiD> I'll update
01:59:01 < XavierGr> Does anyone knows if Lineage 2 is free to play?
01:59:25 < fuzzie> it isn't, but there are [somewhat useless] free reverse-engineered servers
02:00:07 < fuzzie> oh, apparently they're not reverse-engineered, just lacking data
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02:00:27 < TiMiD> everything should be here http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/
02:01:09 < XavierGr> so then you say I will have to quit my try to play it? Do you think I should delete it?
02:01:20 < XavierGr> Becuase there is no way to pay for a game.
02:01:45 < TiMiD> XavierGr: you should try ragnarok online with eAthena if you want a free mmorpg
02:02:19 < TiMiD> I also found a free wow server, but it was not up to date and I can't remember what was the name
02:03:09 < XavierGr> up to date you mean?
02:04:01 < TiMiD> it was for old versions of the client
02:04:24 < XavierGr> hmm and to think that someone told me that Linage was free!
02:04:35 < XavierGr> Now I will just have to delete it.
02:05:03 < TiMiD> to play to lineage, you must have a valid cd key, after that, it's free
02:05:17 < XavierGr> lineage 1?
02:06:38 < TiMiD> or not :)
02:06:52 < TiMiD> I confused with another game (maybe)
02:07:11 < TiMiD> bu I can't remember the other game's name
02:07:16 < XavierGr> gui_synchronized_lists_set_nb_items: couldnt you find a shorter name?
02:07:37 < TiMiD> no XD
02:07:44 < TiMiD> Ilike loooong names :)
02:07:50 < fuzzie> both lineage and lineage 2 are subscription, sadly
02:08:11 < TiMiD> with longs names, you can read the code without comments 
02:08:23 < XavierGr> gui_synchronized_lists_get_selected_item_position
02:08:26 < XavierGr> haha
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02:08:48 < TiMiD> (but I still put a lot of them because I don't like when I read my code 3 month later nd I understand nothing :p)
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02:09:28 < TiMiD> gui_synchronized_lists_get_selected_item_position >> gslgsip 
02:09:36 < XavierGr> That's why you can use comments.
02:09:37 < TiMiD> or a1
02:09:39 < TiMiD> a2
02:09:50 < TiMiD> why not ? it's a memory address after all :D
02:10:29 < XavierGr> well you have to admit that with detailed comments it is more readble and easy to code.
02:10:41 < XavierGr> you will ahve to copy paste this in order to call it.
02:10:44 < TiMiD> I like very clear code without ambiguity
02:10:54 < TiMiD> yes
02:11:03 < TiMiD> I code with copy/past :)
02:11:16 < XavierGr> anyway you can always search and replace if the devs find it too hard to read.
02:11:16 < TiMiD> for example how would you have called this fn ?
02:11:42 < XavierGr> don't know I didn't write it! :P
02:12:01 < TiMiD> but if you had to name a fn that did this job !
02:12:52 < XavierGr> what job I don't know anything about it!
02:12:54  * XavierGr tries to avoid the question.
02:13:22 < fuzzie> gsyncl_get_selected_item_position
02:13:46  * TiMiD slaps XavierGr with a H140
02:13:52 < XavierGr> lol
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02:14:28 < fuzzie> the long function name is much saner than some of the GNOME stuff i've seen, though..
02:14:29 < XavierGr> So how long do you think it will take to finsifh with tree.c?
02:14:40  * TiMiD slaps fuzzie with his neighbour's ipod (more safe this way)
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02:15:01 < TiMiD> XavierGr: pfiiiew
02:15:10 < TiMiD> no idea :)
02:15:41 < TiMiD> maybe I should have started with menus and then let it on the actual state so that someone motivated can do it instead of me ^^
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02:17:13 < TiMiD> I have a bad feeling about the modifs I did to tree.c :(
02:17:38 < TiMiD> it seems to work but I'm sure it's full of bugs
02:18:00 < TiMiD> because I never get a working program at the first try :)
02:18:15 < XavierGr> well that is for all programers!
02:18:18 < TiMiD> here I never got segfaults :(
02:18:22 < XavierGr> why dont you test compile it?
02:18:37 < TiMiD> I use the simulator
02:18:56 < XavierGr> does it works?
02:19:23 < TiMiD> but it's under windows (don't compile under linux) and the win32 sim is buggy (seems that mode key is not working)
02:19:36 < TiMiD> for what I do, it works !
02:20:26 < TiMiD> I tested on my desktop under linux (with access to menus, but it was only 2 minutes since I had to take the train quickly
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02:21:36 < XavierGr> then it works you have main and remote lcd rendering at the same time no?
02:22:35 < TiMiD> yes, the mirroring display is at least the only thing I know to work since it was like that even before I started to hack tree
02:23:00 < TiMiD> after that, if it displays the correct files under all curcunstances ....
02:23:19 < TiMiD> that's another problem XD
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02:25:18 < XavierGr> if you started it fine and you move right you should end without problems.
02:25:49 < XavierGr> You need apetite for programming and motivation to keep it on.
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02:28:12 < TiMiD> I'm not hungry any longer :)
02:29:57 < XavierGr> why is that. Dont you want to operate your ihp from the remote?
02:31:52 < TiMiD> sure I want
02:32:18 < TiMiD> but I don't like the way the rb gui is coded
02:32:29 < TiMiD> global variables everywhere
02:32:36 < TiMiD> duplicated code
02:32:43 < TiMiD> I like oo programming
02:33:39 < TiMiD> and if I didn't controlled myself, I would start recoding each part until I get bored and give up
02:34:04 < bagawk> oo can get confusing at times
02:34:45 < TiMiD> if it's well done it's more clear though
02:35:23 < TiMiD> (of course I don't have the right to say I do the best code, it's not what I want to say)
02:36:24 < XavierGr> oo?
02:36:55 < XavierGr> object oriented?
02:37:43 < fuzzie> yes
02:38:45 < XavierGr> but C is not oo C++ is.
02:39:12 < TiMiD> you can organize your code t make it a little more oo in c
02:39:48 < TiMiD> even without heritage and stuffs like that the code is much clear
02:39:57 < TiMiD> (or seems to me much clear)
02:40:37 < fuzzie> it's a lot easier to entirely mess it up in C, though
02:41:14 < TiMiD> sure
02:41:40 < TiMiD> but c++ is very ugly in some of it's advanced syntaxic aspects
02:42:39 < TiMiD> oh
02:42:44 < TiMiD> I have a noob question
02:43:02 < linuxstb__> Look in the WIki.
02:43:09 < TiMiD> where can you find the option to decide wether you use a cursor or an inverted line ?
02:43:29 < TiMiD> (needed to test my inverted line :p )
02:43:58 < linuxstb__> General -> Display -> LCD -> Line Selector
02:44:15 < TiMiD> oh thanks :)
02:44:27 < TiMiD> seems to work :p
02:44:40 < TiMiD> next one : scroll bar
02:45:35 < XavierGr> Display - > status/scrollbar
02:45:58 < bagawk> I think the line sel should always be bar
02:46:05 < bagawk> _much_ easier to see
02:46:25 < preglow> well
02:46:29 < preglow> not all people think that :)
02:46:33 < XavierGr> well when the devs removed the arrow a lot of people aske for it back
02:46:54 < TiMiD> works :( not even funny 
02:46:55  * linuxstb__ hides
02:46:56 < bagawk> XavierGr, When did that happen?
02:47:51 < TiMiD> btw, the way I handle it, it's only 2 or 3 lines more to have the choice :)
02:48:35 < TiMiD> status baris working as well :(
02:48:37 < XavierGr> Thu Sep 1 08:04:37 2005
02:48:51 < TiMiD> I must be dreaming
02:49:00 < TiMiD> I've better to go to bed
02:49:04 < XavierGr> http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/settings.c?rev=1.300&view=markup
02:49:05 < TiMiD> good night guys
02:49:07 < linuxstb__> TiMiD:  Is it possible in your code to add a small left margin to the text - so there is a gap between the text and the left side of the inverse bar?
02:49:16 < XavierGr> goodnight TiMiD and keep up!
02:49:21 < TiMiD> thx
02:49:49 < TiMiD> linuxstb__: I don't understand ?
02:50:04 < TiMiD> you mean the right side of the bar
02:50:38 < linuxstb__> It may just be my font, but the left side of the first letter is in exactly the same position as the left side of the inverse bar.  I want the text moved in one or two pixels.
02:50:50 < TiMiD> oh
02:51:02 < TiMiD> that is handled by some obscure display drivers :)
02:51:09 < XavierGr> I think that the status bar is reaching the LCD width.
02:51:17 < XavierGr> if there is not a scrollbar.
02:51:22 < TiMiD> I just tell it "hey display me a scrolling inverted line"
02:51:42 < linuxstb__> OK.  I'll dig around in the lcd code.
02:51:54 < TiMiD> gl :p
02:52:18 < TiMiD> XavierGr: scrollbar is always under statusbar
02:52:37 < preglow> bar is good for me, but some insane people actually use the arrow :)
02:53:17 < TiMiD> if statusbar is displayed, then scrollbar just displays under
02:53:30 < XavierGr> TiMiD I meant that the inverse bar is all the way to lcd_width except if there is an icon or scrollbar.
02:53:51 < TiMiD> XavierGr: yes that's excacly the behaviour
02:53:54 < XavierGr> no I am wrong
02:54:14 < XavierGr> the inverse bar will not take all the lcd width.
02:54:25 < XavierGr> even if there is no icon or scrollbar.
02:54:33 < TiMiD> yes it do :)
02:54:37 < XavierGr> (maybe with icons turned off)
02:54:53 < TiMiD> Ihave it in front of my eyes ^^
02:55:17 < TiMiD> even if the title is "a", it takes all the display width 
02:55:19 < XavierGr> me too with icons turned off it gets the whole display.
02:55:28 < XavierGr> yes I know that
02:55:43 < TiMiD> of course, with icons it doesn't scroll icons ^^
02:55:44 < XavierGr> I am talking about the width of the inverse bar to the left
02:56:00 < TiMiD> and it doesn't invert icons
02:56:14 < XavierGr> the left side is adjusted if there is an icon or a scrollbar.
02:56:22 < XavierGr> if not it will take the whole lcd width.
02:57:19 < TiMiD> yes
02:57:36 < TiMiD> well I'm giong to bed (in fact I'm in my bed ^^)
02:57:47 < XavierGr> do you have a laptop?
02:57:52 < XavierGr> with wifi?
02:58:00 < TiMiD> there are still some minor bugs when leaving tree but it should be ok
02:58:01 < XavierGr> lol
02:58:16 < XavierGr> yeah you will fix that tomorrow!
02:58:18 < TiMiD> XavierGr: yes, my neighbour's wifi is terrible ^^
02:59:27 < TiMiD> and she is so rude that I don't have any scruple to do this ^^
02:59:50 < XavierGr> :)
03:00:27 < TiMiD> well time to sleep (it's 2am here and I hav an important appointment tomorrow at 9
03:00:37 < TiMiD> cu !
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07:48:58 < Paul_The_Nerd> XavierGR, are you here?
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08:24:23 < Bger> morning :)
08:27:18 < fuzzie> oh dear, so it is
08:32:48 < yosemite> maybe where you are
08:35:19 < fuzzie> oh, you're in here, how scary
08:35:46 < yosemite> haha
08:35:54 < yosemite> only for a few days
08:36:18 < yosemite> originally when I got on I was complaining about how crappy rockbox was ;)
08:37:34  * Paul_The_Nerd blinks.
08:39:39 < fuzzie> i trust you've learnt the error of your ways, or .. something
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08:49:23 < yosemite> yeah or something
08:49:34 < yosemite> actually I've used it since then a lot
08:49:43 < yosemite> except when some rogue ogg or mp3 locks it up
08:53:04 < yosemite> I should probably put a new daily build on it
08:53:13 < yosemite> it being my iRiver
08:54:38 < fuzzie> don't think there have been any real fixes in the lockup regard lately
08:54:45 < fuzzie> anyway, sleep for me now, given it's almost 7am
08:54:57 < yosemite> well it probably wouldn't hurt overall
08:55:57 < Bger> morning, B4gder :)
08:56:01 < B4gder> morning
08:56:03 < Bger> any news on irc logs ?
08:56:13 < B4gder> I'll see what I can do
08:56:39 < Bger> what's the problem ?
08:56:55 < B4gder> I have no idea, I haven't even tried to investigate
08:57:18 < Bger> aha, okay:)
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09:08:27 < amiconn> morning
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09:29:29 < Bger> haha BitchX has really good quit message when killing X :)
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09:29:46 < B4gder> :-)
09:43:45  * B4gder decides to throw in a torch in the neuros talks
09:45:11 < Bger> why ??
09:45:20 < B4gder> because I believe in honesty
09:45:25 < B4gder> and I'll be frank
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09:45:48 < Bger> any recent logs ? :)
09:46:13 < B4gder> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=neuros442linux-main
09:46:19 < B4gder> that's the list archive
09:46:40 < fuzzie> the whole DSP thing is insane
09:46:48 < B4gder> yes
09:47:03 < B4gder> I would say the whole TI thing is insane
09:47:18 < B4gder> unfortunately
09:47:33 < fuzzie> yes - if they want to build 'open source' products, they need to use hardware which can actually be used in an open source way
09:47:44 < fuzzie> but i'm far too timid to point this out :)
09:48:00 < B4gder> I just decided to not be that timid ;-)
09:49:18 < fuzzie> Linus is definitely not the only Linux copyright holder, though, they're in the same situation as rockbox, really
09:49:53 < B4gder> perhaps, but I would guess that Linus would be the only one who _could_ go after these
09:50:18 < fuzzie> yes, probably
09:50:19 < B4gder> but you're right
09:50:26 < fuzzie> thanks for posting it, anyway
09:50:35 < fuzzie> saves me having to do it :)
09:50:39 < B4gder> hehe
09:59:13 < linuxstb__> How would the "black box" around the DSP work with the GPL?  Can _any_ code run on the same device as Rockbox device that isn't GP'd?
09:59:32 < B4gder> I don't see how it could
09:59:49 < amiconn> Well, we'll have the same situation on archos with running the pcm codec on the mas
10:00:05 < B4gder> true
10:00:58 < ashridah> if you can treat it as firmware, it's debatable as to if it's 'data' or 'code'...
10:01:13 < amiconn> I'm not a gpl expert, but iiuc the gpl prohibits tight interaction. Loading a program is ok
10:01:41 < amiconn> (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to run non-gpl programs on linux)
10:01:41 < B4gder> yes, as long as the load is not a "tight" API
10:01:46 < ashridah> interfaces and data are generally exempt, so things like system calls and data files are okay.
10:01:48 < linuxstb__> But how does the GPL work with tight integration between different hardware components? 
10:01:50 < B4gder> there's of course a grey area
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10:03:03 < B4gder> the hw is not covered by the gpl
10:03:43 < amiconn> As the mas and the SH1 are so different, the pcm codec is just data for the SH1, which it transfers to the mas
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10:04:03 < linuxstb__> If the software runs on the same CPU, it seems clear.  But if there are different CPUs inside the same device...
10:04:40 < B4gder> well, of course there would have to be a complaint by someone for a violation to be noticed or even cared about
10:05:03 < B4gder> and grey areas remain grey until tried in court
10:05:15 < amiconn> linuxstb__: In fact the same situation exists on the pc
10:05:41 < amiconn> Thinking about graphics chips, firmware in harddrives, cd-roms etc
10:05:59 < ashridah> quite a few scsi cards load firmware. (some of them can be compiled tho)
10:06:02 < B4gder> the GPL doesn't limit the license to stuff on the same cpu, it merely says you have to provide source code in its prefered form for the binaries
10:06:42 < ashridah> B4gder: true. so have a different license for the binary data. if it's not linking against your code, then it's not violating the gpl
10:06:55 < ashridah> after all, mp3's don't need to be gpl
10:07:06 < B4gder> but we don't distribute any mp3s
10:07:08 < ashridah> they just get transported from a to b by the code which is
10:07:43 < ashridah> that's true. if you're in the position where you personally would like everything to be gpl'ed code, then that's an issue.
10:08:02 < B4gder> I don't think its an issue for me personally
10:08:06 < ashridah> but if you're happy to redistribute a firmware data chunk for a chip you don't directly interact with except by twiddling bits on a wire...
10:08:06 < amiconn> I'd think it's the same situation as e.g. doing cd-burner firmware update using a gpl'd tool
10:08:11 < B4gder> but for all those who wrote GPL code what we use
10:08:20 < ashridah> B4gder: 'you' means 'rockbox the outfit of mp3 player hackers'
10:08:35 < B4gder> yes, but we also use code by people outside of this project
10:08:40 < B4gder> they released their code as GPL
10:08:47 < B4gder> knowing that we will adhere to the license
10:09:08 < ashridah> B4gder: that's true. but if you're not linking the firmware against your own, or their, code, then the issue is moot. we're not talking mplayer-linking-and-distributing-binary-codecs here
10:09:51 < ashridah> i don't see how anyone can object on terms of the GPL. they can object in other ways, of course
10:09:53 < B4gder> yes, but in the binary-driver-for-DSP I can't see how we could have a rockbox _without_ linking to their binary driver
10:10:08 < B4gder> and bing, that's not GPL-style
10:10:17 < ashridah> that depends. what's the interface to the dsp chipset?
10:10:34 < B4gder> we don't know, as that is secret
10:10:36 < ashridah> if all you do is twiddle a few ports and then clock in/dma in data
10:10:41 < B4gder> and thet'd provide an API for us
10:10:43 < B4gder> they'd
10:10:46 < ashridah> no, as far as the data/firmware is concerned.
10:10:50 < ashridah> not how it works internally
10:11:04 < ashridah> ie, how do you instruct it to do something once the firmware's in place? 
10:11:29 < B4gder> ah, right, it could actually be a part of the bootloader phase
10:11:31 < ashridah> are you given "poke byte into this mmap'ed register" 
10:11:38 < B4gder> and that could be done using a different license
10:11:48 < ashridah> or are you given "link in this bit of code and call this address" 
10:11:55 < B4gder> the latter
10:11:59 < ashridah> aah
10:12:04 < B4gder> at least that's how I've interpreted it
10:12:12 < B4gder> it isn't exactly crystal clear
10:12:15 < ashridah> because typically firmware doesn't work that way
10:12:15 < linuxstb__> The GPL FAQ isn't specific about what consititutes two programs being considered as one.  But they suggest that it depends on how they communication.  e.g. communicating via a Unix pipe will probably not be considered combining two programs into one.
10:12:22 < linuxstb__> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation
10:12:50 < ashridah> it's just a matter of piping in data over a set of ports and then being able to pipe in commands as sequences of bytes over said ports, no problem.
10:13:03 < linuxstb__> So I think the software running on the MAS is considered an independent application - because of how it communicates with the code on the SH.
10:13:03 < B4gder> ashridah: no, but this case is not a typical one I'd say
10:13:05 < ashridah> hell, you could probably disassemble and rewrite a thin wrapper around that kind of thing.
10:13:21 < ashridah> B4gder: true, no situation is really typical at this level.
10:13:40 < ashridah> there's more than likely going to be some proprietary communication protocol to mess with, if what you're saying is true
10:13:58 < B4gder> it is TI after all
10:14:44 < linuxstb__> But what alternatives are there for Neuros to use?
10:15:37 < B4gder> since the DSP isn't even for N3, they could more or less use anything with an ARM9
10:16:46 < B4gder> they just want that TI because they want the same chip for more models
10:17:10 < linuxstb__> So what firmware are they running on the other models?
10:17:13 < B4gder> then, I'm not that into what other ARM-chips with embedded DSPs there are
10:17:25 < B4gder> the 442 model is gonna run linux
10:17:34 < B4gder> that's their media player
10:17:46 < B4gder> the dsp is meant for the video stuff
10:18:16 < B4gder> (assuming I've understood it right)
10:18:20 < linuxstb__> BTW, I think my bootloader is working fine now.  Not sure what I changed, but I'll let you know if I get the same problems again.
10:18:29 < B4gder> neato!
10:18:39 < B4gder> ATA work coming up?
10:18:58 < linuxstb__> Yes.  The ATA specification scares me with its size...
10:19:10 < B4gder> hehe, yeah
10:19:37 < linuxstb__> I'm nervous that bugs in my ATA driver could damage things.  Anyone know what the risks are in that area?
10:20:14 < B4gder> I'm not that into ATA, but my impression is that it is "rather" risk free
10:20:42 < B4gder> I mean, the only real problems we ever had with the ATA stuff during development...
10:21:01 < B4gder> was accidental locking of disks, on very early Archos Player models
10:21:11 < linuxstb__> I'm sure I'll find out...  My plan is to write the driver, and then ask others (who understand ATA better than me) to have a look at it before I try to run anything.
10:22:09 < B4gder> I would assume that you would "only" need to find out how to use the rockbox ATA driver the ipod way
10:22:47 < amiconn> ashridah: The communication between the MAS is done via 3 channels: it's controlled via i2c, audio data is written via i2s, and read via a parallel port
10:23:45 < amiconn> (same way as for the built-in mpeg audio codec)
10:26:25 < ashridah> amiconn: so it's not via a proprietary wrapper?
10:29:08 < amiconn> No
10:29:42 < amiconn> The pcm codec itself is just a blob, delivered in the form of some arrays defined in a .h
10:30:21 < amiconn> Download to the mas is possible via parallel port output or i2c (only the latter is possible in the archos)
10:31:31 < ashridah> hmm. could you load it via a file instead? when does it have to be loaded in?
10:47:24 -!- markun [n=karl@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #rockbox
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11:01:37 < Slasheri> amiconn: hi, the dircache increased the code size about 3.5 KiB
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11:34:55 < amiconn> ashridah: The pcm codec needs to be loaded before playing or recording pcm. Switching back to mpeg audio means throwing it out of the mas' ram
11:35:07 < amiconn> Slasheri: That's not much... :)
11:38:36 -!- lImbus [i=lImbus@port-212-202-8-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [" work"]
11:40:47 -!- linuxstb [n=linuxstb@213.86.218.27] has joined #rockbox
11:46:47 < Slasheri> amiconn: hehe, good :)
11:47:14 -!- vik [n=vik@203-214-114-90.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #rockbox
11:48:41 < vik> what is the latest on H300s?
11:49:52 < B4gder> no recent news
11:51:01 < vik> oh for a BDM so I could play...
11:51:17 < B4gder> so buy one
11:52:29 < vik> yeah - that'd be nice; no money tho. 
11:54:49 < vik> cya
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12:14:34 < Bger> http://www.funnies.com/picsMay28/102-needles.jpg wow 
12:15:25 < Bger> http://www.funnies.com/picsMay28/extremebodypiercing.jpg - wow-er ...
12:30:11 < ashridah> heh, hope that was sterile
12:32:48 < TiMiD[Dreamer]> Ugly :<
12:33:05 -!- TiMiD[Dreamer] is now known as TiMiD
12:33:33 < TiMiD> and I was just going to eat :(
12:35:03 < Bger> TiMiD sorry 
12:35:53 < TiMiD> :(
12:36:25 < markun> TiMiD: When I implemented the center-scrolling feature I did it only for the tree viewer. Will it be more easy to also implement it for menu and pluginbrowser with your new list 'widget'?
12:36:52 < TiMiD> markun: center scrolling feature ?
12:36:55 < TiMiD> :D
12:37:10 < TiMiD> what is it ?
12:38:18 < markun> The cursor used to be at the bottom on the screen when you browse down. Now stays at 2/3 of the screen (until you get to the end)
12:39:21 < TiMiD> oh
12:39:29 < TiMiD> taht was the first thing I implemented :)
12:39:40 < markun> ok, cool :)
12:39:51 -!- webguest01 [n=c35d1527@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
12:40:15 < markun> Though I think there are a few people who don't like the feature. Maybe it should be an option (.. too many options)
12:40:24 < TiMiD> mine is approximatively at 1/3 of the screen when going up and 2/3 when going down
12:40:46 < TiMiD> it couldbe an option, but too much option is a bad thing
12:41:06 < TiMiD> even with the current options set, I'm a little lost :p
12:41:17 < linuxstb> Well, no-one seems to have complained too loudly about it.
12:42:09 -!- webguest01 [n=c35d1527@labb.contactor.se] has quit [Client Quit]
12:42:10 < TiMiD> this feature makes the browsing more easy
12:42:15 -!- webguest09 [n=acc9166b@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
12:42:21 < markun> Pedro was the only one so far I think.
12:42:21 < webguest09> Hi
12:42:34 < markun> But maybe he removed it in his private build
12:42:47 < webguest09> Will the VU plugin and the MP3split plugin be available for iriver soon?
12:43:43 < linuxstb> It's impossible to say.  They will be available when a dev decides that he/she wants to implement them.
12:44:08 < webguest09> ok
12:44:15 < TiMiD> will the dircache patch be commited soon ?
12:44:20 -!- preglow [n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no] has joined #rockbox
12:44:21 < webguest09> its a shame iriver don't make the h1x0 series anymore
12:45:11 < webguest09> Is there a wps tag that enables the battery to be shown as a "battery" rather than a percentage?
12:48:23 < Slasheri> there is a wps conditional you can use to draw your own battery image
12:48:33 < Slasheri> i think it has 5 steps or something like that
12:49:15 < webguest09> oh right
12:49:35 < linuxstb> But there doesn't seem to be an option to use the built-in battery icon - maybe there should be.
12:49:59 < webguest09> i don't know much about conditionals. My WPS is extremely basic, it simply shows "Now Playing", the artist and title and the elapsed/total time in song (i wanted it to look like an iPod WPS)
12:50:15 < Slasheri> TiMiD: if nobody has anything against it (new problems etc.), i can commit that. But i will still wait a little
12:53:31 < markun> Slasheri: It would be nice if the caching would be interrupted when I turn the player off.
12:54:44 < Slasheri> markun: Hmm, good point. I will try to fix that
12:56:04 < preglow> where's your patch located again?
12:56:28 -!- tango5513 [n=5005a006@labb.contactor.se] has joined #rockbox
12:56:37 < tango5513> Hey all
12:57:02 < Slasheri> preglow: http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache_rev2.diff
12:57:09 < Slasheri> that's quite new version
13:00:16 < preglow> ghah, can't access dev box yet
13:00:25 < preglow> oh well
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13:03:44 < TiMiD> Slasheri: I have problem with it : it breaksmy beautiful patch XD
13:04:19 < TiMiD> so fight, who will be the first commited muhahhahahaaaa
13:06:38 < preglow> what're you coding on?
13:08:14 < TiMiD> i'm coding remote support
13:08:24 < TiMiD> and I'm hacking tree.c
13:08:30 < TiMiD> :(
13:08:59 < TiMiD> but your patch don't cahnges it a lot if I remember well
13:09:05 < TiMiD> so it will be ok
13:09:26 < TiMiD> (and if mine gets commited, it's in a looooong time :) )
13:11:35 < Slasheri> TiMiD: hehe, it should be easy to fix by you :)
13:12:33 < TiMiD> yes :)
13:12:40 < TiMiD> but I'm lazy
13:12:43 < TiMiD> ^^
13:12:46 < Slasheri> :D
13:13:09 < TiMiD> I will fix it when my work will be finished
13:13:19 < TiMiD> (at least on the tree)
13:13:36 < TiMiD> and I have a lot ofthings to test ...
13:13:55 < TiMiD> (and not a lot of time to code)
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13:16:56 < TiMiD> oh sounds like you can't change the font on the remote
13:17:09 -!- TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[japanese]
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13:21:51 < preglow> well, that's what you've got to fix :)
13:22:01 < preglow> sounds like a good time to introduce multiple fonts as well
13:22:10 < preglow> multiple font support, that is
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13:26:12 < linuxstb> TiMiD[japanese]: Is it possible for you to limit the scope of your patch - so at least you can get something committed? 
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13:36:20 < Moos> B4gder: why logs of october don't here?
13:37:09 < preglow> no one knows
13:37:24 < Moos> ah ok :(
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13:46:52 < Slasheri> Moos: i can send you if you need
13:47:18 < Moos> hi Slasheri, yeah please do :)
13:48:22 < Slasheri> Moos: Ok, from which day? 1st of october?
13:48:48 < Moos> pv msg ;)
13:48:52 < Slasheri> hehe, ok :)
13:49:25 < Slasheri> Moos: argh, sorry but i am not registered -> privmsgs don't work
13:49:47 < Moos> :-O :)
13:49:50  * preglow kicks freenode
13:49:54 < Slasheri> but i will send you them now
13:50:04 < Moos> oki thanks